MovieChat Forums > Lilja 4-ever (2002) Discussion > this movie is as stupid as it gets

this movie is as stupid as it gets

posted 13 years ago by cbeckerman1
27 replies | jump to latest

she has no family so who are they going to threaten? if I was her I would simply refuse to eat or do anything especially service their clients. what are they going to do beat me? they already said the only way out is death being beaten is just a slow death. lilya demonstrates very low level brain capacity they show her continuing the lords prayer while shes enslaved. deliver me from evil? your in about the most villainous situation possible. either she doesn't understand the words to the prayer or she is simply not accepting the reality shes in, either way it makes the film look very flimsy. while shining light on an important issue it is done incredibly poorly.

[–] cbeckerman1 13 years ago

go and put on makeup and she does it classic stupidity

[–] cbeckerman1 13 years ago

if your in a crowded mall and your captor is standing right nextto you you mmmmmmm maybe kick the guy in the balls and say whats happening?

[–] cbeckerman1 13 years ago

your concerned about your merchandise so you feed it a steady diet of mcdonalds WTF

[–] graham_marcus 13 years ago

She does not want to die, the idea of being killed is terrifying to some..
And she is not that smart, it's shown in the class scenes that she was failing school and she is only 16 and lives without parents..

"they show her continuing the lords prayer while shes enslaved. deliver me from evil?"
she realizes it's hopeless and throws the thing on the ground though..
she realizes the hypocrisy of it.

"if your in a crowded mall and your captor is standing right nextto you you mmmmmmm maybe kick the guy in the balls and say whats happening?"
she was told that the police where on his side, when you are raped and abused and find out your relationship with the man you loved was a complete hoax who knows what mental damage that could of done to her.. i mean throughout this time she's been having vivid hallucinations of her dead friend..

"go and put on makeup and she does it classic stupidity"
and
"your concerned about your merchandise so you feed it a steady diet of mcdonalds WTF"
contradict one another..
she wears makeup cause he's concerned about his merchandise..
but macdonalds is cheap and it seems that she is barely fed (this is indicated
when she is eating the burger.. she quickly devours it like it's the first thing she's eaten in weeks)

I rarely respond to comments like these but perhaps you should
pay more attention to the film.

[–] cbeckerman1 13 years ago

even animals know when its time to die. dogs an pea aphids can commit suicide are you trying to tell me shes less intelligent than an insect but we should still have sympathy for her? she apparently wanted to die enough to jump off a bridge. are you trying to tell me she went her entire life without having the notion adults should be responsible? funny how when she was at what we would consider social services she didnt say anything about how she was living. are you trying to tell me that the boy was smarter than she was to understand vegetables dont grow in winter? we should always believe what were told right rather then trying to protect ourselves because the criminals are always friends with the police right? I believe that in order to buy into this load of rubbish she would have had to have had severe mental damage to the point I was surprised she was able to be in school at all. she didnt have vivid hallucinations until the very end and how would she have known he was dead since her friend did it after she left? were led to believe she has some emotions for the boy yet she would leave him thinking he would whack himself? sorry this film has so many plot holes I could drive a car right through it.

[–] PoppyTransfusion 13 years ago

Do you have no concept of learned helplessness? Or the effects on someone who has always been a victim? Her mother's a single parent who has taught her the only way out is a new life in the West. That's what she knows and that's what she goes with. You think an illegal in a country she doesn't know and with a language she doesn't speak will react the way you judge she should have?

I'm a fountain of blood
In the shape of a girl

[–] cbeckerman1 13 years ago

your only as helpless as you allow yourself or you want to be. always been a victim? or never used her head. so if one dream ends it doesnt mean you lay there and die you pick yourself up and do something about it as she started to do when she went to work - she used what she had- the sad part is she never used whats between her ears.common sense says she should have , if someone dropped me anywhere in the world and that happened to me I would go to the police, we the viewer have no more knowledge of police uniforms in other countries than she does but you know what it wasnt that hard to recognize who the police were. people seem to want to make excuses for her behavior rather than recognize it for what it was pure ignorance. I was raped repeatedly by someone that lived in my and my parents house he also told me he would kill me if i told anyone - did that stop me no it didnt. she has less sense than I did when I was nine that says a h--l of a lot about her doesnt it? I was taught very early in life Fight or Die and I mean that quite literally. if i couldn't be fighting to live than I would be fighting to die. I am also Jewish my grandfather survived the holocaust while his entire family gave up, he snuck under the fence and lived in tbe woods for many years. its debatable whether animals commit suicide whats not debatable is that somehow her intelligence is less than an animals because even an animal knows to fight for its life, she just gave up and accepted her fate and cooperated till she finally jumped.

[–] PoppyTransfusion 13 years ago

Right - you need to do some reading up of psychology. It's quite apparent that you are using your view of life from your situation with which to measure hers. You are not taking her view into account (makes you like the traffickers really). You need to read about the effects of 'learned helplessness', trauma and kidnapping on people. *Then* and only *then* might you be able to comprehend what the film is about and what you're grappling with.

I'm a fountain of blood
In the shape of a girl

[–] cbeckerman1 13 years ago

did you graduate high school? I really believe I am talking to someone as dumb as lilya. what is her view miss know it all that she just chose to accept whatever happened to her and thats fine and dandy as long as the viewer felt sympathy for her?I am using the view of common sense fight or flight she chose neither. learned helplessness is chosen helplessness which is choosing to act like a moron.

[–] cbeckerman1 13 years ago

. Learned helplessness theory is the view that clinical depression and related mental illnesses may result from a perceived absence of control over the outcome of a situation.[1]

so lets break this down clinical depression or related mental illness- choosing to be the victim because she refused to act to save her own skin
which perceived absense of control- my point again it does NOT say completely helpless it says perceived I am not going to go as far as to say this was completely her fault because it wasnt but she sure didnt want to help herself in any manner either so whos fault would that be? you can make excuses or you can excuse yourself from a horrible situation I chose the latter my brain works apparently hers didnt.

[–] Dawgisfun 13 years ago

When you have clinical depression or a related mental illness you do not choose to be a victim.

When you perceive that you are helpless, you feel that you are not in control of the situation, therefore, need help from somebody or something.

She did not want to help herself? That makes no sense. Why would she want to stay there and decrease her flourishing? She obviously felt helpless

Nobody cares if your brain works. You are two different people, who live in two different places.

[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] cinesimon 13 years ago

Your childishness and ignorance could not be any more pathetic.
Kiddo, when you actually grow up a bit, you'll look back upon such nonsense as this bizarre and reality-defying belief of yours with embarrassment.

[–] cbeckerman1 13 years ago

it is bizarre to not think of yourself as a victim when your at your lowest point or to think that life as it is might not be livable? I am not sure what you find strange about this but I dont understand how to simply escape reality do you think a starving man imagines food on which to live and that's enough for him to live? the reality is your starving lilyas reality like it or not, accept it or not was that she was a sex slave, I am only happy that she chose not to continue this miserable existence that she had no control over, the only control she had was whether or not to go to the authorities, but since she chose not to do that at least she chose the second best thing. living life as a victim is a choice you make whether conscious or unconscious, it takes strength to do something - anything about it.

[–] couzijn 13 years ago

You can't tell from the outside whether Lilya was a victim by 'conscious or unconscious' choice or not. That's just your hypothesis. A hypothesis that can't fail is a useless hypothesis debatewise. You are free to believe in it, of course.

I find it rather naive to believe that victims of a situation for which they are not responsible may simply 'choose' to free themselves from its consequences. One probably needs hindsight for that.

It is just a small step from your point-of-view to the idea that Jews in WWII were guilty of their own demise because they failed to 'choose to take their fate into their own hands'.

[–] Yinky 13 years ago

What is bizarre is the hostility of your arrogance. Well, suffice it to say that no one is as intelligent and self-aware of themselves as you are. Congratulations.

[–] Dismenot 10 years ago

pea aphids can commit suicide are you trying to tell me shes less intelligent than an insect but we should still have sympathy for her?

Spoken like a true blue fascist.
What a heartless berk, please go away.

http://www.missingkids.com
http://www.amberalert.gov

[–] Miss_Xray 9 years ago

Very well said and hope that is true.

Some people just don't have any concept of what it is to be traumatized and just sees it from their point of view, witch is really far off from being in that situation. Pure ignorance. =/

[–] chamohlamb 8 years ago

I believe the character was 16? You expect a 16 year old girl who is forced into this situation to make all of the right decisions?

[–] turkeyprophet 13 years ago

What was she supposed to do when she escaped? She doesn't have any ID. She presumably doesn't speak much English or any Swedish. I think she was Russian and if that was the case then she can't stay in Sweden.

So assuming that she managed to get away (which she did after a short amount of time), what was she going to do? Live on the streets? Go back home and live a crappy life or get murdered?

[–] cbeckerman1 13 years ago

all of those options sound better than her current situation especially the go back home option.

[–] Husskade 13 years ago

Go back home to what? Where? Who? More of the same?

Don't worry ever, because this is just a ride.It's just a ride. Bill Hicks.

[–] HornyDonkey 12 years ago

Did your mom drop you when you were a baby...repeatedly?

My List:
http://www.imdb.com/list/2oNF6wXyc5k/

[–] buchowski 12 years ago

"if I was her I would simply refuse to eat"

cbeckerman1, you are a complete moron. They ply girls with alcohol and drugs, repeatedly rape them, they are not able to say no when drunk and drugged.

cbeckerman1, you have the intelligence of a fly.

[–] ketone_of_sexiness 11 years ago

I think Lilya had reached her last shred of hope by the time she got to Sweden. I think the Lilya in the beginning of the movie,with her personality and spunk, would have got out of there. But if you add up all that happened to Lily (starting from her mother abandoning her) up until she arrives in Sweden, I think it is safe to say she was at her wits end.

some people just reach their limit of what they can handle.
The authorities back in her home country were not very active in helping her find a place to live, making sure she had food, etc.
And then when she gets to Sweden, she is sold for one night to a guy who lives like a westerner. American style big house, big garage for the car.To Lilya, ordinarily that beautiful home and way of life would have represented a ray of hope for her, but the fact that someone who lived in what she thought was a dream would act that way, it basically destroys any last trust she has in any authority figures.

In Lilya's mind, she has a glamorous, naive view of the west. She most likely thinks that the back door, sketchy things that happen at home do not happen in the West. When she gets sold to that guy in the nice house, her idea of safety and a new life in the west is destroyed for good.This is why she starts talking to herself and the guy in the strange manner that she does when she gets there.