MovieChat Forums > Irréversible (2002) Discussion > I may not express this correctly

I may not express this correctly


I know many viewers have decided that the rape scene, at least by length, is gratuitous. If you're mind is made up I won't try and persuade you, but I took away something different.
Rape is not a new subject to film, but it is rarely treated realistically in film. Most often it is completely invisible in a film, and only suggested by showing an imposing figure and then a cut away to a crying girl, or a shadow demonstration. We've all seen a ton of shots of a girl crying in a shower. There are numerous examples where directors have decided we're "mature" enough to see something violent, like zombies eating guts or soldiers being dragged around with missing limbs, and certain sexual encounters, even where rape is implied, but this is the one time I've ever been asked to look at what rape can truly, and often is, be. In the history of film I can think of few scenes as controversial as this one and yet I can think of so many scenes which are so much more gratuitous. Only this scene deals in rape. One would be hard pressed to suggest the scene is intended to arouse, and anyone suggesting it is exploitative would have zero precedent to build that argument upon. This scene says, if you choose to watch it's entirety, this is how a rape may go, all the way, from beginning to end. It is not romanticized, it is not metaphorized, and we are never asked to wonder if she enjoyed it. And finally, after all is said and done, when the act is over, instead of being lead through stylistic choices to decide how we feel about the rape, our own viewership forces us to confront it ourselves personally and (if you're smart about how to watch this movie) alone.

It's difficult to argue for art in rape. It's also hard to say that rape hasn't been treated "artistically"in many films, and this movie did away with any "art"ifice.

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The scene simply portrays the horrors of that kind of assault.
Those that maintain the scene was too long are missing the director's aim- to show the helplessness and pain of the victim and to have the audience share in that feeling.

Not to be voyeuristic but the entire scene length from when she leaves the party to the end of her being beaten was around 12 minutes.
In between was her being accosted and assaulted. 12 minutes isn't that long for what happens.
The actual rape itself was 5:45. Some sexual assaults go on for far longer.

One thing others have mentioned in the past is that the assailant, Le Tenia, appears to be an experienced rapist- he doesn't waste any time.

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What makes this scene controversial is the word you used: 'arousal'. Just because something is morally and ethically 'wrong', doesn't mean it cannot sexually 'arouse'. A man walks by in the background while she's being raped. In fact I didn't even notice that, until I read it somewhere and looked again. Why don't we notice that man? Perhaps because it is in fact a 'hot' scene and it rivets our attention. Bellucci is a beautiful woman and we imagine her smoothness etc. It is a scene that 'arouses' in certain ways. Why didn't that man do anything to help or raise the alarm? Perhaps because what he saw was merely a man and a woman having sex in a tunnel, rather than 'rape'. He hadn't seen the foregoing events. For all he knew, Tenia and Bellucci were lovers. How was he to know (and yes, sometimes people do have sex in tunnels and other public places in all major European cities at night)? Likewise, how are we to know that this is rape, without foreknowledge of the lack of consent? We need a lot of historical information before we know it's 'rape'. And statistically, because rape is much rarer than consensual sex, if you come across a man taking a woman from behind in the dead of tunnel in a seedy part of Paris or London it's VERY unlikely to be rape that you're seeing.

In isolation (let's say if it was just the sexual act depicted, and none of the rest of the movie) it's not a rape scene at all. It's a sex scene. And it doesn't differ from mainstream pornography, designed to titillate. It's a very strong and powerful image, even if we recoil from our own natures and avoid this basic truth. The 'idea' of rape, although obviously not rape itself, is often an aphrodisiac for both men and women.

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Old thread, I know, but I just want to say that I did notice the man in the background. Maybe it's because I'm a heterosexual woman and wasn't distracted by thinking about Monica's gorgeous body as she was being brutally raped. I understand what you are saying about arousal but... Yikes, man. If that we're happening to me and I knew someone had come along and could've helped me, well that would just pour salt in the wounds. But, you're right; maybe the man thought it was consensual. I guess I was under the impression he was scared and didn't want to get involved.

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I noticed the man in the background too. But if it had been just two people having consensual sex, I have a hard time believing that the woman enjoy being pinned to the ground of a dirty tunnel. That (to me) should have raised a red flag with the man.

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Have to disagree with you here. The coward entering the tunnel 100 % knows what is happening!! Yes, her mouth is covered but the rapist is saying "I'm going to *beep* your ass" (and he is not being quiet here). Believe me, what the person in the back of the underpass is doing is an outrageously cowardly act because the good he knows he ought to do, he neglects to do and this terrible incident occurs. Noe is a genius and purposely times the scene to perfection by bringing in the third person into the scene before the actual act of rape takes place, therefore proving all the more that all of what we are about to see could have been avoided. This film is terrific. Extremely dark but terrific nonetheless. As far as the original post goes, I think the film is so long on purpose for many reasons many of you have already suggested. Indeed, to show the brutality of what rape may look like from start to finish, but yes probably also for arousal purposes. And... Because the scene takes so long it messes with you mind perhaps. Who do you identify with in this scene? Or are you simply the viewer? Notice Belucci's outstretched hand in the midst of this horrendous act. Such and important film and very brave filmmaking.

"Doublethink. To deliberately believe in lies, while knowing they're false." Henry Barthes

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I'm liable to give the passerby some slack, as France's gun laws are totally gay.

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