MovieChat Forums > The Butterfly Effect (2004) Discussion > Big plot hole

Big plot hole

posted 6 months ago by blindfolded (1618)
9 replies | jump to latest

We are to determine the blackouts happen as a result of Old Evan coming back. Second time through, we see the "reasons" why we see certain details when Young Evan comes to: ie: Tommy disturbingly twisting the doll in the basement, why his dad was attacking him, etc.

However... why are we seeing the blackouts BEFORE Evan changes the traumatic events? What I mean is, the first time through, we witness the blackout from Young Evans POV, and then we understand a traumatic event happened during the blackout. Then Young Evan comes to and faces the immediate consequence of the event he has no memory of.

Which means Old Evan came back to this moment in time to....let the traumatic events play out??

Doesn't make any sense. I like the concept, but there's a lot in this movie that doesnt hold up to scrutiny.

[–] WandererFromYs (2308) 6 months ago

The fact that the blackouts happen means we aren’t seeing the first time through. Older Evan jumped back, and changed something. Most of the time he screwed up and make things worse, he’s not intentionally letting traumatic events play out. That’s kind of the point of the story.

[–] blindfolded (1618) 6 months ago

That's stretching and I would have to refute this. The kiddie porn scene is the most egregious example of what I'm saying.

In our version Old Evan comes back and tells off discount Marty Mcfly. He throws Tommy under the bus and we see Tommy enraged, like we see the first time. The first time we witness, Young Evan comes to and everyone's just kind of sitting there as the trauma happens

If what you're saying is true, there is really nothing you can say that Old Evan was doing during this time in any sort of attempt. Tommy is still on the stairs. Kaylie is still standing there getting scarred for life. Daddy is still drunkenly filming.

Nothing happened and Old Evan did nothing to intervene. Old Evans time would've been talking to friendly Dad outside all the way up to standing naked in the basement.

[–] WandererFromYs (2308) 6 months ago

You are assuming that everything plays out the same way, and the movie suggests that it doesn’t. We don’t know the exact reason Evan traveled back on our first viewing, but the butterfly effect would suggest that it was for a different reason than when we eventually see him do it.

His trips back are always well intentioned, and they always end up ruining things for him, or the people around him. You are suggesting that he went back and allowed the trauma to happen. Something else could’ve caused it inadvertently, or maybe he just went back, and wasn’t able to say or do anything that would have a lasting effect. Like the kitchen knife scene.

[–] blindfolded (1618) 6 months ago

I'm not literally saying he came back to let the trauma play out. I'm saying through the fault of bad and inconsistent writing that thinks it's more clever than it really is, that is the in-universe result.

Your only defense of the movie is a vauge, unspecified idea that I'm "assuming" stuff. I'm only going off of exactly what we see and what the movie is telling us.

Fact: The movie is telling us the blackouts are Old Evan.
Fact: The basement blackout starts when meeting Stoltz outside and ends in the middle of being naked in front of his camera.
Therefore: Either Old Evan came back and his direct actions during this specific time led to Young Evan and Kaylie being in that position and thus the orginial trauma (has to be orginal trauma, otherwise what is he documenting on his playdate to come back to)
OR
The movies internal logic is egregiously flawed.

Which it ultimately is.

[–] WandererFromYs (2308) 6 months ago

I think it’s fair to question why an older Evan would go back to that moment, yet somehow still end up in the basement with his shirt off, while the dad was taking pictures. But we do need to speculate to come up with an answer. If we are seeing Evans first trip back, then he didn’t know what happened. He might have just been playing along for a bit before he saw where it was going. Even after it happened, he doesn’t seem sure, he questions Kaylie on it when he looks her up.

Or, he may have tried something that didn’t lead to any kind of a solution. Remember this was a 1 time thing for Evan, and he didn’t remember it, so there was no Trauma. But for the other 2 it was 1 time of many. So it’s harder to make a lasting impact.

Is it due to lazy writing? I don’t know. The problem is there is an inherent paradox in this type of story. The fact that there is an older Evan to travel back in time suggest that we don’t see the original events in the movie. There is already an adult version of Evan traveling back in time when the movies starts. There can be an infinite number of loops, but we have to jump in somewhere in order to have the movie we have.

[–] Burk48917 (11354) 6 months ago

Younger me liked this a lot when it came out. I recently rewatched it, and it held up very poorly. Pretty silly and full of dumb character motivations.

[–] blindfolded (1618) 6 months ago

The worst one I saw upon first watch back in 2004 was when he scars himself to prove to his prison buddy. According to the films own logic, the scars wouldn't have magically appeared to him.

[–] Burk48917 (11354) 6 months ago

That's a genuine plot hole, but some stuff was just dumb. The basement scene when 30 seconds of him acting tough gets her dad to stop molesting his daughter. The young tommy being able to kick the shit out of everyone, including much older kids twice his size. Just constant shit like that.

[–] blindfolded (1618) 6 months ago

Yeah you're not wrong about that