MovieChat Forums > Gosford Park (2002) Discussion > How premeditated was the murder? (Spoile...

How premeditated was the murder? (Spoilers)


I've generally assumed it was premeditated because of the knife issue. After watching again last night one scene made me think a little more. The scene in question is where, before the murder, the servants are dishing in the dining room about Elsie, with Parks present and then Mary walk in. It struck me at the time that the gossip regarding Elsie was very similar to what happened to Parks mother. I've constructed the following scenario:

0) Parks hates dad and knows who he is.
1) Parks gets a job with Stockbridge in order to get close to daddy to kill him.
2) Parks steals the knife (no evidence in the film at all on how this was done?) This would seem to indicate that he wants dad dead. But I don't think his heart is really in to actually him at this point.
3) The next day he hears about Elsie and, struck by the similarities to his own mother, this pushes him over the edge to ACTUAL murder.

Stealing the knife beforehand is pretty powerful evidence, but the job with Stockbridge, as a part of the plan, is not really explained/implied, I think?


Really that one scene in the dining room after the affair reveal is what I'm basing things on. I'd had never put together before that he was present and how Elsie's situation resembled his own mothers.

reply

Parks had wanted to do what he did for years; no one and nothing at the party influenced his motivations in any way.



Ignore the trolls! Any failure to do so will only grant them the satisfaction they seek!

reply

Parks changed employers just to have the opportunity to get physically close enough to his father to kill him. This is very premeditated. The only spontaneity is Mrs. Wilson's poison.

As for the full back story that Parks has been stalking his father. Yes, there is only that one discussion with Denton. But really, do we need to have more than that?

Elsie's situation is nothing like his mother's. Elsie has genuine affection for Lord Stockbridge, enough that she publicly speaks out of turn to defend him. There is no coercion in their relationship.

It's not what a movie is about, it's how it is about it. RIP Roger Ebert

reply

[deleted]

Me? make a mistake? Yes, I undoubtedly did. I have seen this film 30-40 times, no exaggeration, but I can still get the titles mixed up.

Elsie had genuine affection for Sir William.

It's not what a movie is about, it's how it is about it. RIP Roger Ebert

reply

[deleted]

If anything I've done or said has led one more person to watch The Way of the Gun, then it's all been worth it. Same for Gosford Park.


It's not what a movie is about, it's how it is about it. RIP Roger Ebert

reply

I saw The Way of the Gun years ago (2000) on cable and thought it was absolutely brilliant. Loved it!

reply

The *murder* was considered/planned by Mrs. Harris 24-36 or so hours earlier; once she realized that her son was there, and "anticipated" his actions. The *stabbing*/what could be called only attempted murder or desecration of a corpse was in the works for many years.

As for #2, I think Robert's access to the knife is explained by Weissman's phone conversation about how a valet is all over the place in such houses and could easily be the murderer in his next film.

reply

You're all forgetting one thing: How did Robert Parks, who was a first-time visitor to Gosford Park (as indicated by his arrival and later conversation with Mrs. Wilson) know about the secret passage the "stabber" used to sneak up on Sir William? It's a glaring plot hole/error that has never been resolved. However, if we substitute Robert Parks with Sir William's nephew Anthony Meredith, we have a far better candidate for "stabber." For one, he was a relative and (presumably) frequent visitor to Gosford Park, who could have easily known of the secret passage. And, to me, his motive is far more realistic than Parks' "I hate the father I've never known" cliche.

reply

Arguably Parks could have entered without using the secret passage and gained his "sneak attack" advantage because Sir William was poisoned and already dead or at least incapacitated. Parks may have also wanted Sir William to know he was being killed for retribution by his own abandoned son and not cared about sneaking up on him.

reply

I think that Parks entered that house with every intention of killing his father. His desire to murder him dates back to his finding his (own) records at the orphanage, then learning of Sir William's modus operandi and his mother's alleged death. He didn't need a catalyst - Elsie - to tip the scales in that direction, although her situation (while not, as aGuiltySoul said, the same as his mother's) may have made his revenge all the sweeter.

Sorry to keep returning to Weissman's high-volume phone calls, but Altman talked - in either a commentary or interview I saw - about these calls acting as exposition, and as an alert/raising of awareness, for the audience; e.g., valets can go anywhere and everywhere.

A handsome new visitor such as Parks would have the female servants lining up to give him guided tours of every nook and cranny in that place, no doubt, so I saw no need for our being shown or told how he got ahold of the knife, or learned of the hidden entry to the study. And I'm pretty sure we saw a very brief scene in which Parks looks up to see - Elsie, I think? - coming back through the secret passage from the study into the kitchen area.

Parks' talk with Mary, in which he says he doesn't know whether or not he killed Sir William, is tantamount to a full confession from virtually anyone else. Really, what else *could* this mean when coupled with his strong denials of having poisoned him?? He certainly convinced *me* he'd stabbed him. (That Mary then says, "So you did kill him, then," I cringed. She knows Sir William didn't die from a stab wound, so it's a stupid and pointless thing to say.) It's at this point that Parks says he doesn't know - also odd - but his then adding "and I don't care" I found to be disingenuous. I believe he cared very much that his father die by his hand.

reply

It's at this point that Parks says he doesn't know - also odd - but his then adding "and I don't care" I found to be disingenuous. I believe he cared very much that his father die by his hand.


I think Parks genuinely doesn't care how Sir William came to be poisoned. He smiled in the courtyard when he overheard the news that Sir William had died because of being poisoned, not stabbed. He didn't seem one bit put out that Sir William had not died by his hand. In fact, Parks seemed to find it amusing that Sir William was "hated enough to be murdered twice."

As for the "secret" passageway, it's a private back passageway, not secret. I'll have to watch GP again to see if Parks observes anyone emerging from the private passageway into the kitchen area. My own thought was that Parks watched Mrs. Wilson take the cup of coffee up to Sir William via the private passageway, and followed suit.

reply

"I think Parks genuinely doesn't care how Sir William came to be poisoned. He smiled in the courtyard when he overheard the news that Sir William had died because of being poisoned, not stabbed. He didn't seem one bit put out that Sir William had not died by his hand."
_____________

You're absolutely right. *This* Parks does not care that he was not the deliverer of his father's fate. It annoys me as I don't feel this reaction was in keeping with the Parks I first "met," who I felt certainly would care, and very much, indeed!
_____________
"In fact, Parks seemed to find it amusing that Sir William was hated enough to be murdered twice."
_____________

Excellent point, Flora_Poste!

I don't recall an effort being made to keep the existence of the study's back entrance a secret; it was simply a convenience. I was just continuing the terminology of the thread, as a courtesy and as it's a commonly used, if not "correct," term for such aspects of grand houses.
_____________
"I'll have to watch GP again to see if Parks observes anyone emerging from the private passageway into the kitchen area. My own thought was that Parks watched Mrs. Wilson take the cup of coffee up to Sir William via the private passageway, and followed suit."
_____________

Even if we, the audience, saw him witness neither, I think it believable that he knew of its existence.

reply