Cribs: A Show That Highlights the Ego and Greed of 'Celebrities'.

Well, if you think so, then you're only being self-aggrandizing by looking down on the people who WATCH the show, so... fair do's. I know which I think is worse. At least the celebrities aren't on some self-appointed mission to 'make us better people', and show us the error of our ways!

I'm not asking you to agree; I just don't think you getting on a soapbox about it is going to change things... If you don't like it and don't watch it, then fair enough, but bemoaning the fact that people don't share your opinion is pretty snobbish. We are all different people who seek different things from our TV consumption, and if some people want to live a vicarious fantasy or indulge in TV that in some ways is aspirational, then I'm afraid I don't see this conscious decision as being massively detrimental to the overall health of society.

Criticism of the show's ethos itself is fine (encouraged even, as you say... ) but implying that everybody who has ever watched it and gained some pleasure from it is a mindless drone who is symptomatic of a decaying society is the bit that may just be taking critical analysis a little too far! There are viewers who can appreciate the show for what it is (shallow and gaudy) without exemplifying those very same qualities, in their everyday lives.

Maybe - and this is a radical concept - maybe some celebrities buy things with their money (money which they are entitled to by the way!) to make THEMSELVES feel better, and not to lord it over other people?!

Monarchs are BORN, celebrities are MADE - that's the biggest difference, and I'd say that it's quite an important distinction, all told. Celebrity is also open to every kind of social class - it gives people a chance to move freely about the scale; it doesn't limit. In many ways, I'd say it's the exact OPPOSITE of the monarchy, and yet, you say you aren't drawing a tenuous connection? You were making an analogy, I just wouldn't say that it holds water. In fact, the very people who are devoted to celebrity culture are probably the section of society who are LEAST likely to care whether or not we're a monarchy or a republic. Apathy is not a conscious choice - just because someone might not object to the Royal Family, does not mean that they are similar to the institutions which have led to them keeping their place.

You seem to think that the media is an all pervasive, ominous element, over which people have no influence or power against... The media is US; it was created by us, it is a tool just like any other... We get the media we want or even deserve. There is no reason we have to passively accept everything we see, or that we can't reject this 'propaganda', as you call it. People don't because they don't WANT to; they know what it is, and they have freely chosen it... They haven't been 'brainwashed', at all.

We are not all born equal. Maybe the majority of people already see being born into a Western economy with plenty of amenities available as a pretty cushy number, and so they don't feel as though they have much to fight against. What 'rights' am I being denied? I am free enough to dissent against you on the Internet - that seems pretty fair, to me. We are not all born equal, and so trying to impose equality after the fact ironically just perpetuates unfairness, in itself... 'Fairness' as a pure concept would be good, but that could only be achieved if everybody were altruistic and good intentioned, which they are not, and never will be... You are talking about living in a Utopia which has no chance of ever coming to pass.

I like discussing politics; I was just curious as to why it took you five years to go from having some grudging common ground with me, to virtually launching a diatribe at me, overnight?

I was not a part of the way the discussion evolved... I thought we had come to the end of our brief conversation, last time.

I am only a pro-capitalist in the sense that I don't think there's a better system... I do recognise its faults.

That's the difference between you and I; I wouldn't try to 'change' anybody... If they have been afforded the power to be able to make their own decisions, then I would just leave them to get on with it themselves - which is the same basic freedom I would ask in return. You wouldn't like somebody to crusade on your behalf, if you thought you didn't need it, so why express a desire to have the same effect on other people?

Fair enough as far as your reasons for coming here go... I just happen to believe that there are far more important things to get 'righteous' about!

The fact that there is very little criticizing for this vapid worship of gaudy excess and inequality doesn't really speak highly for the membership of this specific board.