MovieChat Forums > Spy Game (2001) Discussion > Significance of the burned flag?

Significance of the burned flag?

posted 13 years ago by mfiskey55
13 replies | jump to latest

Does anybody know, or is the significance of the partially burned American flag mentioned in the film? I know Gladys asks about it & Muir tells her to keep it as he's leaving. However, what I'm interested in is if there is any background on how & why Muir ends up with it, frames it, and keep it in his office? It obviously has significant meaning to him, but do we know what the meaning is? Thanks.

I almost numchucked you, you don't even realize!

[–] joshwords 13 years ago

I thought it would have been from a past mission that he did, or something else that required him to be in a dangerous situation and he was able to come out with it as a 'souvenir" from that event.

[–] mfiskey55 13 years ago

Definitely this was a misssion of significance, but does the audience ever find out SPECIFICALLY what that particular mission is?

I almost numchucked you, you don't even realize!

[–] dweil2-2 12 years ago

I prefer to think that it's from the fall of Saigon in '75. It could have come from the airport or from the embassy. The burned part would perfectly symbolize America's "defeat" and would resonate with him, reminding him of the danger of hubris. There's some meta too with Gladys, since the CIA tried to burn HIM and his protege as well.

But no, the audience doesn't SPECIFICALLY discover what the origin of the flag was. It's up to each viewer to put it in his or her own context. But Saigon fits as well as any.

[–] mfiskey55 12 years ago

That would seem to make the most sense as far as the flag coming from somewhere/thing related to Viet Nam, where he was intimately involved. Your symbolic reference also seems to add to the story. Thanks.

I almost numchucked you, you don't even realize!

[–] michaeldecker 11 years ago

I think the flag was older than that - didn't it have the 'stacked stars' pattern rather than modern alternate layer pattern?

[–] LDThompson-998-811981 11 years ago

You're correct Michael. It DOES have the stacked stars rather than the 50-star in-out pattern. This means the flag has 48 stars. This means it's between 1912 (admission of New Mexico, Arizona) and 1959 (admission of Alaska). I don't know of any flags that might have been partially burned that might have prestige value. As a result, I can only think that it might have some OSS/CIA related value to Muir. Almost certainly, I believe, a WWII flag -- Corregidor maybe? Wake?

[–] eehrha (1) 2 years ago

The WW II is the most likely answer. Many Intelligence assets across the intelligence community got their start in the military and the 48 star flag would have been in use during Pearl Harbor attack in 1941. I doubt it would have been from the Arizona because that flag would be in a US Naval museum, but their were several other possibilities that a US Army or Navy Intelligence Officer might have gotten after the attack. Redford looks a bit young to have been serving then. But a young lieutenant or Ensign Junior Grade could have been maybe 22 years of age then making him 72 in 1991 the period covered in Spy Game.

[–] J_Crysher 11 years ago

It could also come from the Beirut Embassy or Marine Barracks.

[–] LDThompson-998-811981 11 years ago

No, it couldn't. Those events happened when there were 50 states. This flag has 48 stars. I bet it comes from someplace like Pearl Harbor (maybe USS Arizona?).

[–] J_Crysher 11 years ago

Good eye, I missed that. Much to my shame.

[–] jfymfporsiempre 11 years ago

I'm just gonna throw this out there, maybe it's stupid and you may have a nice laugh, but perhaps the burned flag has no significance or background story.

I'm not completely sure when this movie was filmed exactly, but it was released not long after 9/11. Again, this is just a suggestion, but in keeping with the fact that movies aren't filmed in the same sequence of events they're played out on screen, perhaps the burned flag was a reference to 9/11. Maybe they filmed it after the attacks and put it in just before it's release? Who knows.

Like I said, it might be a stupid idea, but I think, if I remember right, the volunteers who worked at Ground Zero in the months after the attacks did find a burned American flag which they hoisted up on a pole. Maybe the flag in this movie was a reference?

[–] chris-53-184575 9 years ago

The story goes it was the flag Bishop's father served under (hence it being WW2-era). It is according to an unfilmed scene in the original script.

[–] Jes' Sayin' (6360) 18 days ago

The flag is very old, having only 48 stars. The point is probably that it's old school and been though a lot, just like the Redford character.