MovieChat Forums > Batoru rowaiaru (2000) Discussion > Why I do not think The Hunger Games is a...

Why I do not think The Hunger Games is a ripoff of this.



As an aspiring writer who knows many other writers (both aspiring and published), I can tell you all of us have had "original" ideas only to find out later some people had written about them before. When Collins says she got the idea for The Hunger Games watching both war and reality shows in TV, and added the tributes from the mythological story of Theseus and the Minotaur, I do believe her. I had lots of ideas that were used before I could write them by authors like Asimov and George R.R. Martin. All my friends who write (some of them published already) complain about the "Oh, no, I did the "unknown plagiarism again"! " It sucks when you come up with what you think is a great idea and you find out that someone used it before. My alien race with three sexes? Asimov did it before, damnit. My two deconstructions of the fantasy princess, the Disneyesque and the warrior princess? Sansa and Arya Stark. A friend of mine (already published her first novel, not in English) had the idea of the wolf who became man during nights of full moon. Done in the 18th century by some French dude. Then she had this great idea for her steampunk novel where people paid with time and not money. When she was told about "In Time", she was really depressed. (By the way, I told her she should go on with her novel because "In Time" totally wasted such a great premise: even if no one believes she had the idea on her own, that's unimportant, I believe she could do a better job with it). Another writer of my acquaintance (second novel published and working on the third) has had this happen to her.

It is VERY difficult to find an idea that hasn't been written about before by someone, somewhere in the world even if the idea came naturally to you. Of course, no one is going to believe you... except for other writers. I do believe a writer when he or she says he had the idea before or the idea came from other source, because it's actually very common whenever you're trying to get ideas. Happens all the time.

To Collins' credit I must add Battle Royale wasn't exactly a very well-known movie before The Hunger Games appeared. I am a Japanophile who reads manga and watches anime, and even listens to j-pop and j-rock, and I found the movie out of coincidence. It's not mainstream famous, so I think Collins' version is believable (if you are a writer or someone who's ever had an idea for a story: if you completely believe that two people in different places and times cannot EVER have the same idea or a similar one, then of course you'll think Collins did a ripoff).

If I thought Collins was ripping off, I would rather go for something like "The Running Man", the movie. The Hunger Games has much more of the brutal, ruthless TV show vibe, than it has of Battle Royale. So, if anything, I would think Collins got inspiration from "The Running Man" and then gave the other version: she was watching war in TV, and a reality show, had the idea of blending them, and added the idea of tributes from the mythological story of Theseus and the Minotaur. By the way, I know it may seem "too much of a coincidence" that two lovers survive from both Hunger Games and Battle Royale. The problem is that in the Story of Theseus and the Minotaur, both Theseus and Ariadna do survive after killing the Minotaur and get away with it. So I don't think Collins' story is that far-fetched. She could be lying, of course, but she could perfectly be telling the truth.

That said: originality died with Shakespeare, and he killed it (most of his plays were based on other people's or prior stories and legends: it's only that his own were remembered best).

Again, that said: even if Collins had copied the basic premise from Battle Royale, The Hunger Games still deserves to exist and stands on its own. And The Hunger Games will probably always be the best remake you can do of Battle Royale for the Western world. For starters, Battle Royale criticises the brutally competitive system of education and job market of Japan. It is great at doing that, but you cannot apply that to the Western world. I am from Spain and we only have trouble at 20% unemployment rate: 15% unemployment rate here would be good news.

However, The Hunger Games criticises (and is a metaphor for) other flaws of Western society. How the rich parts has incredible technology and wastes food and resources in entertainment while the poorest zones or poorest countries are getting their resources basically stolen or exploited. How the population is idiotized by sensationalistic media. The brutal sensationalization and publicizing of people's suffering is hit spot on by The Hunger Games, with its glamourization of what's going to be a deadly gladiatorial combat.

I think both stories are very deserving, and both very needed. Both are metaphors for problems of the societies they represent. As for me, I can believe Collins came up with the idea for the Hunger Games of her own: gladiatorial games existed before Battle Royale came out. If she didn't she still made a very good trilogy, that addresses completely different topics from the ones treated on Battle Royale.

One of the main points of Battle Royale is that the combatants are children, unexperienced in violence and unable to fend for themselves. That's absolutely NOT the case with Katniss Everdeen and most of the people she faces. Katniss is a survivor, the sole breadwinner in her family from age 12, hardened by experience and certainly more than willing to kill once the games start. When Collins was asked about the actress that should play Katniss, she said she didn't mind that Lawrence was 20, because according to her "better an adult-looking actress than a younger one". The most poignant thing about Battle Royale is how young the kids look: they look innocent and a bit spoilt, they are clueless and helpless and cannot manage on their own. Katniss is a trained hunter and survivor, and even the baker kid can strangle people with his bare arms. The other children are killed, but their innocence remains intact. You don't see in THG the "Lord of the Flies" psychological destruction that is probably the saddest part of Battle Royale.

It bears mention that The Hunger Games has very defined good and evil characters. Again, in The Hunger Games, the innocent children die as innocent as they got into the arena. The fighters fight, the evil ones remain evil. Battle Royale participants not only lose their lives and limbs: they are psychologically affected by the competition (and that destruction is again, the cruelest part of the Battle).

If you scratch the superficial similarities, Battle Royale is a metaphor for the brutal competitive streak of Japanese High School system and job market. The Hunger Games is a metaphor for how the rich parts of the world live in comparison with poorer countries, and how idiotized the population of said rich countries are.

The comparisons with Battle Royale may hold for book 1. Books 2 and 3 tell a completely different story. Book 2 is quite different, and book 3 bears absolutely no resemblance to Battle Royale whatsoever.

I always thought a "ripoff" had to be something really, really similar to the "ripped off" idea. Maybe it's because I consider "The Hunger Games" a trilogy and I know it complete, but I don't see the ripoff. I can see a similar starting premise, but the story deviates so much, and the premise is so differently treated, that I really think the comparisons make no sense. Once everyone is finished, the stories are very, very different, the characters have little to do with each other, and their development is completely different in both movies.

So, similar premise? Yes, sure. Rip-off? No.

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There was really no need whatsoever for this thread. You found an existing one where it was relevant and posted it there. Twice, in fact.

Please don't post duplicates like this. No one cares.

I'm Addy. Just Addy. From God, to Kane, to Addy.

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Damn double posters. Maybe he wanted his term paper put to more use

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As an aspiring writer who knows many other writers (both aspiring and published), I can tell you all of us have had "original" ideas only to find out later some people had written about them before. When Collins says she got the idea for The Hunger Games watching both war and reality shows in TV, and added the tributes from the mythological story of Theseus and the Minotaur, I do believe her. I had lots of ideas that were used before I could write them by authors like Asimov and George R.R. Martin. All my friends who write (some of them published already) complain about the "Oh, no, I did the "unknown plagiarism again"! " It sucks when you come up with what you think is a great idea and you find out that someone used it before. My alien race with three sexes? Asimov did it before, damnit. My two deconstructions of the fantasy princess, the Disneyesque and the warrior princess? Sansa and Arya Stark. A friend of mine (already published her first novel, not in English) had the idea of the wolf who became man during nights of full moon. Done in the 18th century by some French dude. Then she had this great idea for her steampunk novel where people paid with time and not money. When she was told about "In Time", she was really depressed. (By the way, I told her she should go on with her novel because "In Time" totally wasted such a great premise: even if no one believes she had the idea on her own, that's unimportant, I believe she could do a better job with it). Another writer of my acquaintance (second novel published and working on the third) has had this happen to her.

It is VERY difficult to find an idea that hasn't been written about before by someone, somewhere in the world even if the idea came naturally to you. Of course, no one is going to believe you... except for other writers. I do believe a writer when he or she says he had the idea before or the idea came from other source, because it's actually very common whenever you're trying to get ideas. Happens all the time.

To Collins' credit I must add Battle Royale wasn't exactly a very well-known movie before The Hunger Games appeared. I am a Japanophile who reads manga and watches anime, and even listens to j-pop and j-rock, and I found the movie out of coincidence. It's not mainstream famous, so I think Collins' version is believable (if you are a writer or someone who's ever had an idea for a story: if you completely believe that two people in different places and times cannot EVER have the same idea or a similar one, then of course you'll think Collins did a ripoff).

If I thought Collins was ripping off, I would rather go for something like "The Running Man", the movie. The Hunger Games has much more of the brutal, ruthless TV show vibe, than it has of Battle Royale. So, if anything, I would think Collins got inspiration from "The Running Man" and then gave the other version: she was watching war in TV, and a reality show, had the idea of blending them, and added the idea of tributes from the mythological story of Theseus and the Minotaur. By the way, I know it may seem "too much of a coincidence" that two lovers survive from both Hunger Games and Battle Royale. The problem is that in the Story of Theseus and the Minotaur, both Theseus and Ariadna do survive after killing the Minotaur and get away with it. So I don't think Collins' story is that far-fetched. She could be lying, of course, but she could perfectly be telling the truth.

That said: originality died with Shakespeare, and he killed it (most of his plays were based on other people's or prior stories and legends: it's only that his own were remembered best).

Again, that said: even if Collins had copied the basic premise from Battle Royale, The Hunger Games still deserves to exist and stands on its own. And The Hunger Games will probably always be the best remake you can do of Battle Royale for the Western world. For starters, Battle Royale criticises the brutally competitive system of education and job market of Japan. It is great at doing that, but you cannot apply that to the Western world. I am from Spain and we only have trouble at 20% unemployment rate: 15% unemployment rate here would be good news.

However, The Hunger Games criticises (and is a metaphor for) other flaws of Western society. How the rich parts has incredible technology and wastes food and resources in entertainment while the poorest zones or poorest countries are getting their resources basically stolen or exploited. How the population is idiotized by sensationalistic media. The brutal sensationalization and publicizing of people's suffering is hit spot on by The Hunger Games, with its glamourization of what's going to be a deadly gladiatorial combat.

I think both stories are very deserving, and both very needed. Both are metaphors for problems of the societies they represent. As for me, I can believe Collins came up with the idea for the Hunger Games of her own: gladiatorial games existed before Battle Royale came out. If she didn't she still made a very good trilogy, that addresses completely different topics from the ones treated on Battle Royale.

One of the main points of Battle Royale is that the combatants are children, unexperienced in violence and unable to fend for themselves. That's absolutely NOT the case with Katniss Everdeen and most of the people she faces. Katniss is a survivor, the sole breadwinner in her family from age 12, hardened by experience and certainly more than willing to kill once the games start. When Collins was asked about the actress that should play Katniss, she said she didn't mind that Lawrence was 20, because according to her "better an adult-looking actress than a younger one". The most poignant thing about Battle Royale is how young the kids look: they look innocent and a bit spoilt, they are clueless and helpless and cannot manage on their own. Katniss is a trained hunter and survivor, and even the baker kid can strangle people with his bare arms. The other children are killed, but their innocence remains intact. You don't see in THG the "Lord of the Flies" psychological destruction that is probably the saddest part of Battle Royale.

It bears mention that The Hunger Games has very defined good and evil characters. Again, in The Hunger Games, the innocent children die as innocent as they got into the arena. The fighters fight, the evil ones remain evil. Battle Royale participants not only lose their lives and limbs: they are psychologically affected by the competition (and that destruction is again, the cruelest part of the Battle).

If you scratch the superficial similarities, Battle Royale is a metaphor for the brutal competitive streak of Japanese High School system and job market. The Hunger Games is a metaphor for how the rich parts of the world live in comparison with poorer countries, and how idiotized the population of said rich countries are.

The comparisons with Battle Royale may hold for book 1. Books 2 and 3 tell a completely different story. Book 2 is quite different, and book 3 bears absolutely no resemblance to Battle Royale whatsoever.

I always thought a "ripoff" had to be something really, really similar to the "ripped off" idea. Maybe it's because I consider "The Hunger Games" a trilogy and I know it complete, but I don't see the ripoff. I can see a similar starting premise, but the story deviates so much, and the premise is so differently treated, that I really think the comparisons make no sense. Once everyone is finished, the stories are very, very different, the characters have little to do with each other, and their development is completely different in both movies.

So, similar premise? Yes, sure. Rip-off? No.

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she was watching war in TV, and a reality show, had the idea of blending them,
Are you sure it was a reality show? I mean, she could have been watching Battle Royale 2, which, unlike the first movie, has a lot of shaky-cam war footage...

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[deleted]

[deleted]

hmmm I must have missed something.. just watched Battle Royale and thought that the ONLY thing it has in common with The Hunger Games is that teens are pitted against each other in a game where they have to kill each other to win.

I haven't read the manga so I can't say anything about that.. I have, however, read The Hunger Games trilogy.. and I would agree with OP in that if it's like anything else in pop culture, it's The Running Man.

There really aren't that many original stories... Hunger Games was a pretty good one, though the last book was really disappointing, I thought thatKatniss should have gone off on her own, no love no home. And if she DID end up with anyone, it should have been Gale, and not Peeta she didn't deserve him

oh well.. BR was okay, thought it was pretty nihilistic and melodramatic

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[deleted]

I just don't think they are that similar.... in Battle Royale it's a bunch of school kids who want to rebel against adults

The Hunger Games seems to be farther reaching... and it's controlled entertainment, much more like Running Man or Logan's Run, bu that's just my take on things :)

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Not all the school kids wanted to rebel in BR. Many did, which is why the Act was imposed but not all. As you can see, many still actually went to school, which is how they were duped into the "field trip" in the first place. Even the rebel Nobu who stabbed a teacher.

It's also controlled entertainment in BR. Televised and run by the government of future Japan.



We've met before, haven't we?

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And the battle is not part of that entertainment.

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I am the Queen of Snark, TStopped said so. And I have groupies, Atomic Girl said so.

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I think BR is a ripoff of Stephen King's The Long Walk, the author even admitted it.


= = = =

“The most wasted of all days is one without laughter.” ee cummings

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See the post by The Zig above. Takami didn't rip off Stephen King's work so much as write something that was openly inspired by it, in much the same way that Quentin Tarantino makes movies.

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I'm curious: what aspects of The Long Walk (TLW) strike you as similar to Battle Royale (BR)?


It's not that they are randomly selected by lottery, because in TLW they are not.

It's not that they are forced to take part, because in TLW they have to actively apply to take part and then show up on the day.

It's not that they are innocents forced into mortal conflict, because in TLW they choose to take part, for glory/riches, in full knowledge that it is a deathmatch in which all but one will die.

It's not the theme of "Could you kill your best friend" because in TLW they are all strangers.

It's not about valuing your own life against your friends, enemies, loves and peer-group, again because in TLW, they take part with the explicit goal that all these strangers will die.

It's not the themes of trust/betrayal and "holding faith with friends even under mortal pressure" because in TLW they are openly in it to win it before they ever meet each other.

It's not the idea of social-breakdown, or normal social rules being put aside in a free-for-all mortal struggle where nothing is against the rules; the rules of TLW are clear and restrictive - they have to walk until they are the last. Anything else, including trying to take down someone else, and they'll get shot.

It's not the third person narrative that shifts between different characters, exploring differing aspects of the game through different world views and motivations: TLW stays in fixed first-person view from the protagonist throughout (rather spoiling the tension of who's gonna make it to the end!)

It's not the narrative themes of 'bad/totalitarian government' or 'fighting the power', because in TLW they are just doing what they are told.

It's not collars, or being trapped on an island.

What is it? I ask because a lot of people have dredged up TLW here, and no-one's ever explained how they are similar. It's always "Hunger Games is original because BR ripped of TLW!!!"
Aside from having teens in a deathmatch, the stories are entirely different.

I'm often left with the feeling people are just parroting something that sounded clever in some blog and have never actually read it. Clearly I am wrong, so please explain how.

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I agree with some of your points.

The bit I find tricky to believe is that she finished the entire manuscript without ever hearing of Battle Royale, as she claimed. That sounds wrong.

I can easily imagine her coming up with the idea exactly as you describe.
But then, like you and your friends, surely she would have done some research in the course of writing. Like your friends, most writers I know research their topic - at least a little. And when they have an amazing new idea, they get paranoid that someone else is doing/has done it and start sneakily peeking around for anything similar. If only so they can make sure their own work is sufficiently different. How could she NOT hit on this then? Unless she thinks the "I'm Feeling Lucky" button is the only way to use Google?!? Tarantino has been raving about this film for about a decade. It was in film festivals, and was one of the largest 'cult/foreign-language' films of its era. It was big among 'Japanophiles' and also film-buffs*, and manga kids. It was out in three formats with merchandising in Hot Topic, and the manga and novel were in mainstream bookstores in her home country when she was writing. And she worked in media. How did she not see this?

I can believe she started it without hearing of Battle Royale. I just can't believe she finished it that way. Rip-off? Dunno: don't care enough to nurture an opinion.



*I first heard about it from film buff friends.

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I disagree with this:
'surely she would have done some research in the course of writing."

the reason is someone can research something to an extend. I used to write music, I have a classical style, so I was trying to see if that reminds of something to stay "original", I saw 3 years ago at the TV a movie and I heard the music, it was almost identical to what I have wrote.

It was a Chinese based movie, but I really don't think my research would have been that far. Now IF my music was a famous record or something, there would be people saying I did a rip off. *beep*

People do come up with similar ideas, melodies stories etc..., it is not impossible, But I think it may be rare.

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Music and prose are very different beasts. Plot elements aren't exactly difficult to Google.

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May those who accept their fate find happiness. May those who defy it find glory.

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Exactly.

I just googled: island teens fight to death
No quotes or anything. It's hit 1 and 2. And these days the Google algorithm is better at culling repeat entries - there would have been more hits on the front page 5 years ago.

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I don't know the truth in this matter, but I will say that I had seen the first movie and read the first couple books before I ever heard of Battle Royale, and then only because my son told me about it. I'm a writer myself, and there are many books and movies out there that I don't know about. We can't read and see them all.

To me, since this is a foreign film and book, it seems more of a stretch then the controversy around The Village movie and the novel Running Out of Time.

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No, you can't read and see them all. But you can certainly learn about them in a matter of minutes.

I write too. As Zig said earlier in this thread, when we writers get an idea that we're excited about, we get paranoid. We want to make absolutely sure that it's like nothing that's ever been done before. Personally - and I'm sure I'm not alone here - I like to research all of my major plot points just to reassure myself that there's nothing with too many of them in common. This is ridiculously easy to do thanks to search engines.

So I find it very hard to believe that Suzanne Collins never, not even once, opened up Google and typed in something along the lines of

"stories about deathmatches" or
"stories about deathmatches involving children" or
"stories about deathmatches involving children living under an oppressive government who were chosen by random selection and taken to a secluded place where they are marked with devices that monitor both their vitals and location and are given random supplies and weapons and the deaths are announced on a regular basis, with a strong focus on the protagonist and their boring love interest, who are both allowed to survive at the end despite this never happening before EVER, etc., etc...."

You get the idea.

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May those who accept their fate find happiness. May those who defy it find glory.

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I bet no one even read your whole post. Too long and stupid. As if this is the first film of this kind or even near it. These kinds of ideas for stories/films have been around since before your parents were alive for crying out loud. Just deal with the fact that neither of these stories are original ideas or anything even close to it. Does that make them bad? Obviously not. People in general rarely ever come up with original ideas. Every artist is a cannibal, every poet is a thief, who steal there inspiration, and sing about their grief. Is Hunger Games a ripoff, sure it is, is Battle Royal a ripoff, sure it is. Do they both have some uniqueness to them, sure they do. Pretty much everything is at the very least inspired by something else. It's not a crime. The people who try to lay claim to owning ideas are more criminal. These ideas for killing games definitely goes back at least to ancient Rome. Stephen King wrote a similar book long before any of these movies, and there have been many others similar before that. Bottom line, your argument was a waste of time. What is the difference between The Running Man and The Hunger Games? Not much at all plot wise.


My body's a cage, it's been used and abused...and I...LIKE IT!!

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"I am a huge japanophile... it wasn't mainstream enough and I only came across it by coincidence. "
Uh, it is in japans top 10 selling movies of all time and has been referenced in american movies before hunger games was ever written. Not saying it os a direct steal but the whole 2 survivor bit makes me feel that theres no way she didn't draw inspiration from Battle Royale.

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I completely agree and think there's little way that she, or anyone who read or edited her novel hadn't heard of BR and didn't bring it to her attention. I am in no way a "Japanophile" and I saw this in 2005 when I was 19. By the time HG was published in 2008, very few people I was acquainted with hadn't at least heard of Battle Royale. Was Collins living under a rock?

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Was Collins living under a rock?

She was living in the U.S., where 'Battle Royale' never reached until 2012.

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Since you're posting on the internet I assume you know a little about what it is and can do. DVDs can and have been imported for many years now, and the concept was not exactly new when BR first came out.

It may not have been released in cinemas in the US until 2012 but there were plenty of people in the US who had access to and who had seen it years before then.

I'm Addy. Just Addy. From God, to Kane, to Addy.

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the concept was not exactly new when BR first came out.

I know this and Collins most likely knows this as well.

there were plenty of people in the US who had access to and who had seen it years before then.

Most likely bootleg copies from other countries and Collins is living in Sandy Hook.

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I managed a rather large Books-a-Million, and we never had any copies of Battle Royal. If it was such a popular Japanese Manga we would've had them in stock since we had all the popular Japanese manga in stock. Not once did someone come in requesting it either (which customers did often), or order it shipped to store (which also happened often).

Also, to whomever googled it recently to see what showed up. Of course, these 2 movies are going to be at the top now. If anything, BR should thank THG for free advertising.

In any case, it's not that important. People can enjoy both respective films and books. Neither are unique and shouldn't be considered so.

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[deleted]

Virgin Megastores was an English company and stocked a lot of goods not available in mainstream shops in the US. Probably one reason why the business failed. Your big problem here is that Collins didn't/doesn't live in New York and any music she wanted to buy she could buy in Connecticut.

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I am the Queen of Snark, TStopped said so.

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I got a free copy of the novel when I bought a slurpee from 7-11 with a picture of Chigusa Haruka on the cup (which is already a pricey collector's item). Back then you couldn't turn around without bumping into a BR product, such was the hype at that time.

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You got a free copy of a badly translated, unknown Japanese novel at the 7-11, sure you did. I believe you, I also believe that the moon is made out of green cheese and Neil Armstrong had a nice cheese sandwich when he visited it. And the hype that surrounded BR at any time is not enough to promote using a tissue when you sneeze.

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I am the Queen of Snark, TStopped said so.

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Summeriris, why are you still doing this? You have nothing whatsoever substantial to back up your claims, and dismiss evidence others have presented disproving you out of hand.

Also, you still really suck at sarcasm.

I'm Addy. Just Addy. From God, to Kane, to Addy.

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I know I suck at sarcasm, I'm just too nice. But honestly, are you going to tell me that a real fan of 'Battle Royale' is happy when someone posts a fairy tale describing how he/she got the book? 7-11 doesn't give free stuff with Slurpees, they give free Slurpees when you fill you car up. I don't knock BR, the novel had it's good points. I think the movie is quite frankly let down with the poor acting and script. Also the premise doesn't make much sense. But it's real fans don't spam THG boards. That poster does. When the only way you can think of to 'big' up a movie and (more importantly) take a swipe at another movie is to tell blatant lies, then you are attacking both movies.

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I am the Queen of Snark, TStopped said so.

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Yes. It is a blatant lie. It's so blatant that nobody in their right mind could ever take it seriously. This demonstrates how much you suck at sarcasm.

________________
"I'm weak, and useless, but I'll stay by your side. I'll protect you."

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I didn't deny it. I do suck at sarcasm, however I put it, it's always the truth that shines through.
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I am the Queen of Snark, TStopped said so.

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It also might not be a lie. The poster could have gotten it by winning a competition - this link suggests there have been at least two other competitions involving Slurpees and that character, so he might well have won a BR book in one. http://www.aaaanime.com/animenews/37169.html

I'm Addy. Just Addy. From God, to Kane, to Addy.

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Ugh Huh, that could be, I suppose? When was the last time you even saw a book stand at a 7-11, never mind one holding foreign books? Bear in mind we are talking about a book targeted to adults and not children. A person could say anything in life is possible, what is probable though? That instead of giving away free Slurpees with a full tank of gas, 7-11 gave away free paperback books with Slurpees....13 years ago? What is the probable likelihood that any business gave away the particular book anywhere in the US?
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I am the Queen of Snark, TStopped said so.

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Honestly, can we please stop taking this story seriously!? There isn't even a character in Battle Royale called Chigusa Haruka. I'm sure Girl #12 Tanizawa Haruka and Girl #13 Chigusa Takako are not the same person. And while it was no doubt possible to get a hold of what soon became a worldwide cult classic even in the US, BR did not get a theatre release there when it came out, so I strongly doubt there was ever a time when you "couldn't turn around without seeing BR merch".

________________
"I'm weak, and useless, but I'll stay by your side. I'll protect you."

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Dessek - in fairness, Chigusa Haruka is a character from a different anime, and there were competitions done about that character. It strikes me as unlikely that there would be a competition surrounding that character with a BR related prize, because they're from different works, but not necessarily impossible.

I'm Addy. Just Addy. From God, to Kane, to Addy.

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"A different anime"? Since when is BR an anime?

________________
"I'm weak, and useless, but I'll stay by your side. I'll protect you."

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Well, it's a manga, same difference really.

I'm Addy. Just Addy. From God, to Kane, to Addy.

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it was a novel that was adapted into a manga novel.

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I would be more than willing to drop the subject.
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I am the Queen of Snark, TStopped said so.

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[deleted]

I don't think I have ever claimed that the novel was unavailable in the US. I do claim that it was obscure. And yes Amazon had the first version for sale from 2003 till 2009. After that it was Takami's reworked version. He has since reworked it again. So which version did you buy?

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I am the Queen of Snark, TStopped said so. And I have groupies, Atomic Girl said so.

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How are extremely controversial books that go on to be one of the best-selling novels in the entire history of Japan, topped both The New York Times and The Oprah Book of the Month Club in the US, and included in one of Stephen King the seven books in his 2005 summer reading list, after it was recommended to him by the highly influential novelist Kelly Braffet, considered to be regarded as "obscure"?

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i guess you mean outside of the US and Europe? Cause this novel is a huge cultural reference among generations under 40. This book is now 10 years old but teens and young adults keep refering to it because its subjects remain very up to date in the Western society.

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I'm a writer as well and I agree with the other writers on this thread who have said that writers often (if not most of the time) research their "original" ideas to make sure its not similar to something else. I do this all the time. Sadly, most of my ideas have been done before but I always think of something new. To be honest, when the first Hunger Games came out, I had never heard of it. When I saw the trailer, I thought it was an English-language American version of Battle Royale. I thought they did the same thing to Battle Royale that they did to the Grudge, Let the Right One In and Girl with the Dragon Tattoo. I'm a Japanophile and this has been my favorite movie since I first saw it in middle school in 2006 (I saw it because my beloved cutie Light Yagami from Death Note Tatsuya Fujiwara was it in and I see anything with him). I don't believe Collins hadn't heard of this. There are TOO many similarities. Picked by random lottery? Food and weapons supplied? Fighting in an isolated, restricted area? The old and wise mentor who had survived previously? Boy/girl romance where the lead boy gets hurt? Obnoxious woman who gives them all the details (Effie and the high-pitched instruction video host)? An instruction video? Volunteers? Come on!

And don't say "Battle Royale wasn't well-known. How could she had known?". Collins could've had a nephew/niece or known some child or person who was into Japanese stuff who introduced it to her, or watched it in a film class in college (maybe took a film class as an elective credit like I did where we had to watch Battle Royale), and its one of the highest grossing foreign-language films in history and Hollywood filmmakers have been raving about it for years. I'm sick people saying "Hunger Games is so fresh and new and makes us think". Please...Battle Royale has been making people think for over a decade. Also, Hunger Games has NOTHING on Battle Royale. Heck, if Kiriyama and Mitsuko were in the 74th Hunger Games, tributes like Cato and Clove would've been dead in the first five minutes.


When pride comes, then comes disgrace, but with humility comes wisdom~Proverbs 11:2

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Very well said IMHO

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watched it in a film class in college (maybe took a film class as an elective credit like I did where we had to watch Battle Royale)

How would that be possible? Collins was working on her first novel series at the time.

its one of the highest grossing foreign-language films in history

This is completely false. 'Battle Royale' grossed $25 million in Japan and box office numbers in other countries have NEVER matched that number.

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I smell a diehard Collins fan here. Okay, so apparently you can't go college or watch movies while writing a novel series? Please...It is very possible Collins' could've heard of this while writing her other novels. I write (I'm working on a novel series myself at the moment) and I still enjoy movies and I'm in college. Was that box office recorded back in 2000? I don't remember the actually amount, but the film, in the last 14 years, has grossed more than that. You underestimate us geeks. Foreign films very on box office, especially older ones. It doesn't matter anyways. This film will still be remembered and talked about years from now, while Hunger Games will lose its popularity. I'm so sick of Hunger Games. Its nothing but a ripoff.

When pride comes, then comes disgrace, but with humility comes wisdom~Proverbs 11:2

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1. Suzanne Collins was at mid-to-late 30s when 'Battle Royale' came out.

2. The novel series she was working on at the time was something like 'Gregor the Overlander'.

3. Box office was indeed recorded in 2000 as well.

4. If you were living in the United States at the time, there is no way you would've been able to watch 'Battle Royale' legally. That film never got a release in the U.S. until two years ago (Keyword: U.S.).

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If you think up an idea all on your own and researched just to find out that a book was published on the other side of the world and you never read it, does that mean you didn't think up the idea on your own? Wouldn't you have to have had to have the idea in the first place, otherwise why are you looking it up? And you must be the only writer in the world to research other fiction instead of facts when writing. I don't trust other fiction writers when it comes to my research. I once read a novel on the American Civil War and the writer kept getting the Generals mixed up. Now, if I had depended on that writer's facts instead of the actual army reports, I would have had Lee fighting Grant at Shiloh. One writer to another, never research using works of fiction, get out the history/math/science/atlas/medical books and if you are writing about a murder mystery...talk to an actual detective and medical examiner.

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I am the Queen of Snark, TStopped said so.

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I think you're misunderstanding the whole research point detailed earlier? It's not to do actual research, but rather to make sure your premise isn't too suspiciously similar to anything that's already out there. If you do find something that's a bit too close for comfort, no, it doesn't change the fact that you came up with the same idea on your own, but it's probably wise to not try to publish it either. There's always the wonderful world of fanfiction for that.

The American DVD release date is irrelevant, BTW. I'm American and I first saw BR back in 2007.

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May those who accept their fate find happiness. May those who defy it find glory.

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Well then it's OK, because THG has a completely different premise from BR. The styles are completely different, the world is completely different, the selection process is completely different. BR did not base their selection process on the Theseus myth. The age of the Tributes and where they are from is completely different, and the set up of the Deathmatch is completely different. I know that there are both sexes in the the books, but there are only two sexes. So are you saying Collins should not have written her book because Howard Fast wrote Spartacus in the 1950's, or because all love stories ever written end with a couple?

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I am the Queen of Snark, TStopped said so.

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because all love stories ever written end with a couple


If you're going to be facetious at least do so in a way that isn't moronically ignorant, please.

I'm Addy. Just Addy. From God, to Kane, to Addy.

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Oh, what love stories do you know that don't feature a couple of some kind? And I find it interesting that that was the only point you picked up on.

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I am the Queen of Snark, TStopped said so.

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Heck, if Kiriyama and Mitsuko were in the 74th Hunger Games, tributes like Cato and Clove would've been dead in the first five minutes.

I try not to get involved with silly rant wars like this because I know I'll just end up stepping on people's toes, but I really take issue with this. I am a reader of both Battle Royale and The Hunger Games, and I adore them both for very different reasons:

I thought BR gave a much more significant glimpse into the effects of the death match on its combatants while it was going on, with some pretty great character development for a lot of them. We learned about all 42 students, many of their backgrounds, their individual approaches to the game and thoughts about how they might survive--and most importantly, their thoughts as they struggled through this horrific situation. 42 distinct characters with distinct backgrounds, thoughts and feelings, and for that this is one of my favorite books. (The movie I found grossly disappointing in this regard, but that’s a different discussion completely.)

By contrast, THG focused less on its characters with the exception of one, and used its Games as a mere plot device to tell a bigger story about topics including PTSD, war, media manipulation, celebrity status, rebellion and, ultimately, the overthrow of a totalitarian regime. We are not afforded a look into the combatants’ thoughts because, largely, the story is not about them; the events of the Games and specifically how they affect Katniss afterwards (as opposed to during) are the driving force behind the main thrust of the series. (The movies in THG series do a better job of reinforcing this focus than the BR film did of developing its characters, IMHO, which was the primary reason I enjoyed BR in the first place.)

I think these novels both have drastically different scopes, and they each accomplish what they intend to do in tremendous fashion. The stupid argument of “rip-off” is irrelevant to me; I enjoy them both precisely because of their vast differences in tone and focus, and not the slight similarities they share.

That all said, I really must argue with the above quote. In a world where children are trained with spears and knives before they can walk, there is no way that a few psychopaths who have finally been “let loose” with weapons would be able to defeat them.

Take Mitsuko: many of her kills she attains by deceit and luring her foes into a false sense of security (Tadakatsu, Yuichiro, and Megumi come to mind). She’s handy with a sickle, sure, but pit her against callous, unfeeling Clove from THG and she wouldn’t have time to seduce or argue before Clove’s knives bury themselves in her forehead. That’s just not how Clove or any of the Careers operate; they just don’t get tricked by words, because they’re too focused on making a kill.

Kiriyama would definitely be a fiercer opponent, but I still give THG tributes the edge simply because of their training. No matter how proficient he is with a gun, Kiriyama hasn’t been training with it since he was a toddler. Moreover, if he was to be transplanted into the 74th Hunger Games, he would find no guns anywhere since none of the weapons are automatic. And I seriously doubt he would have time to properly learn a bow and arrow or throwing knife before he gets cut down by the players who have had years of training with those very weapons.

Now, throw Cato and Clove into the Program with Kiriyama and then he would probably hold an advantage. I still think Mitsuko would be toast, simply because of how she plays her game.

I really don’t like the incessant BR vs. THG arguments because I truly find merits with both, and the question of “rip-off or not” is hugely pointless given the monumentally different focuses of each. But speaking objectively, it’s just obvious that Cato and Clove would have the advantages if the BR psychopaths found their way into the 74th Hunger Games.

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And I seriously doubt he would have time to properly learn a bow and arrow or throwing knife before he gets cut down by the players who have had years of training with those very weapons.
Nah... If we're talking book, then Kiriyama would have it. Book-Kiriyama doubtless learned throwing knives and archery to an Olympic standard when he was 12. Then he threw his bow in the bin. (on top of the violin)

... Not sure what he did with the knives when he was thru. Throwing them away would just be practice... 

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It's perfectly simple, this film is too well known.

Only those with no valid argument pick holes in people's spelling and grammar.

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