Question about Fenton's acts SPOILERS - Frailty (2002) Discussion

[–] Shan2133 15 years ago

You're right. God spoke to Fenton's father and said that he was a demon.

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[–] Greenwood79 15 years ago

So is the film implying that Fenton never had free will?

Bit Minority Report-ish!

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[–] Shan2133 15 years ago

I don't think it's that. When Fenton was in that shed by himself, when his father allowed him out, he said that he saw God and he finally understood his destiny. Throughout the movie we see the differences in Fenton and Adam...i.e. their movie selections, Fenton wanted to see the "Warriors" while Adam wanted to see a kinder movie. When Fenton's friend said something about some girls tits, Adam was the more innocent of the two. Adam believed his father when talking about God coming to him while Fenton had no faith. God knew what kind of person Fenton was and how he'd live his life. God knew Fenton would kill his father.

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[–] Greenwood79 15 years ago

Choosing a violent movie over a kinder one, having coarse friends and lying about seeing visions in order to escape being locked up in a shed are hardly justification for being hacked to death with an axe

Fenton killed his father in order to save the sheriff.

I can understand killing 'demons' in order to avenge the murders that the demons have gotten away with, but to ask the dad to kill his son because he has no faith is ridiculous, God would have to send Bill Paxton to kill half the people on the planet!!

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[–] Shan2133 15 years ago

But GOD told the family to do something and Fenton went against the word of God. THAT is enough to be considered a demon. Do you remember Adam talking about Issac and Abraham? God told Fenton's father to kill his son...possibly for his lack of faith. He couldn't do it. God didn't take mercy on their father like he had Abraham.

Fenton had no faith, that was his "crime". There was a message straight from God and he didn't want to believe it. Adam always saw what the demons had done whereas Fenton couldn't see anything. These answers may not be "good enough" for you but that's the idea of the movie.

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[–] Greenwood79 15 years ago

haha, it's not about it being "good enough" for me!

I just felt it was an inconsistency. Everyone else they killed had themselves committed murder, it was righteous revenge. To then pass a death sentence on the son because he does not have the same 'gift' of visions seems very unfair! Considering God Himself must have given Adam and his dad this gift.

Re: Abraham. But wasn't that a test? God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son, and Abraham was about to do it and God stopped him. He did not really require that Isaac be murdered. I don't see that as a true parallel to the Meiks family.

Thanks for the discussion!

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[–] jmarkoff2 15 years ago

Fenton became a demon (in one popular interpretation) because his father disciplined him too much in the cellar (attempting to turn Fenton's heart and make him see God) and f'ed him up psychologically. Talk about a self-fulfilling prophecy!

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[–] botl 14 years ago

Fenton became a demon (in one popular interpretation) because his father disciplined him too much in the cellar (attempting to turn Fenton's heart and make him see God) and f'ed him up psychologically.

No, according to the writer of this film Fenton really was a demon, and he was a demon before he was locked in the cellar.

"Keep a little Marc in your heart" ~ Marc Bolan

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[–] dolores_medina 10 years ago

To then pass a death sentence on the son because he does not have the same 'gift' of visions seems very unfair!

Fenton was not killed for not seeing visions. Fenton was killed for being a serial killer.

By the time that Fenton turned up on Adam's list he had already killed His father + 6 people.

he was not judged and destroyed before he killed anyone. he was put on Adam's destruction list after he had killed 7 people.

Remember Adam said " he keeps his trophies in the basement" Like a serial killer. Adam was destroying Demons, Fenton was Killing people. And had killed at least 7, by the time Adam came to destroy him.

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[–] whitespirit26 15 years ago

Damn right, Greenwood.

Shan, that's utter crap, even if Fenton WAS a demon. Fenton preferred the violent movie and girl's breasts because he was OLDER, for God's sake. He was on the edge of puberty and experiencing testasterone, sweetie, that doesn't make him a demon. It makes him a NORMAL maturing male. You sound like a product of the modern movement claiming that normal male-hood is all destructive and awful.

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[–] botl 14 years ago

Fenton killed his father in order to save the sheriff.

Greenwood, the sheriff was already dead when Fenton killed his father.

"Keep a little Marc in your heart" ~ Marc Bolan

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[–] craig-278 14 years ago

I don't think you can become a Demon. Either you are you aren't. But it does beg the question why it took so long for him to go on Adam's list. Fenton discovered his calling in the cellar. I can only think that it took Adam a long time to track Fenton down.

"I'm entitled. Simple. End of.."

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[–] king_of_bob 10 years ago

Because it isn't "Adam's list." It's God's list. Adam has no say over when a demon ends up on his list. For whatever reason, God waited to put Fenton on Adam's list.

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[–] avortac 12 years ago

The point about the visions, though, is that it was part of a story fabricated by the actual murderer. We don't know how much was real and how much was simply a lie - I mean, we KNOW he already lied about his own name, AND about how his brother died.

How can the viewer then accept any part of the 'flashback' story as the truth or real in any way?

The movie is awful in so many other respects too, but this sort of makes the whole house of cards fall down. All we really 'know' (as far as you can 'know' anything in a movie), is that a guy walked in an FBI office, told the 'head investigator' a story, and then killed him, and then FBI has trouble trying to identify him, and that he turns out to be a sheriff.

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[–] Injinn 9 years ago

It's actually not that complex if you're paying attention.

Though the story is told through an unreliable narrator, Adam, essentially, begins telling the reliable truth when he states, "I've always believed." That is when we, for the first time, see the story through Adam's eyes. We can easily infer this because he wasn't TELLING Agent Doyle anything -- he was remembering what he saw when his father touched those people.

The rest is just his guess at what Fenton was thinking and feeling throughout all those events.

That remembrance on the part of Adam indicates that most of the events "Fenton"(Adam) recalled were real -- Adam just speculated on what he thought Fenton might have been thinking.

We know that Fenton dug a hole; we know that Fenton didn't see the visions that his dad and Adam saw; we know that Fenton didn't want to participate and that he ran away. Beyond that, we'll never know what was actually going on inside his head -- all we have are Adam's guesses.

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[–] jimmysmitsimdb 11 years ago

I can understand killing 'demons' in order to avenge the murders that the demons have gotten away with, but to ask the dad to kill his son because he has no faith is ridiculous, God would have to send Bill Paxton to kill half the people on the planet!!

God didn't ask the dad to kill Fenton because he had no faith. God told the dad to kill Fenton because he was a demon. Dad threw Fenton under the shack for a week to try and drive the demon out of him.

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[–] king_of_bob 10 years ago

Fenton killed his father in order to save the sheriff.

Wrong. The Sheriff was already long dead before Fenton killed their father. Fenton killed their father while he was attempting to destroy a demon. There was no chance of saving a man who had already been killed.

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[–] madnessism 14 years ago

If you consider that Adam made up parts of the story to convince the FBI agent to go with him, one can easily assume some other parts of the story were also fabricated. Fenton may have been an incredibly evil child, not at all like the character we're shown in the flashbacks. Or he could have simply gone insane from what happened in his childhood and ended up living out the destiny his father created for him; self fulfilling prophecy is the term.

Either way, Fenton ending up becoming a murder doesn't necessarily imply he had no free will. There's an entire part of the story where the kids are watching TV which stresses specifically that free will does exist.

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[–] Agnelin 12 years ago

No, Fenton has free will all the time. This is shown in the kitchen scene where the sheriff goes to check if everything is all right and at a point, after Fenton insists so much, he suggests going out to have a look, and then Dad asks Fenton, "So what do you think, Fenton? Does this have to be done?" and Fenton says yes. Then right after Dad kills the sheriff, there's a close-up shot of Fenton where you can see him disappear in the dark -I thought that was quite a clue that Fenton was already choosing his own path.

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[–] chexmix113 15 years ago

No, they weren't. And even though the dad knew the son was a demon, he still knew it wasn't time for that dude to die yet, son or not. That's what I think, but heck, that's what the boards are for, input whether one like's em or not.

I LOVE THIS MOVIE...SAW IT AGES AGO!!!

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[–] melora72 15 years ago

"And even though the dad knew the son was a demon, he still knew it wasn't time for that dude to die yet, son or not."

That is a very good point. If he wasn't on the list his father couldn't kill him. Unless he was told to kill his son by God and told to bypass the list. Actually, I think that is the case, because the father's inability to kill Fenton was his frailty. Thus the title of the film. Maybe he even knew that Fenton would kill him. Fenton did appear on Adam's list years later I think.

I love this movie too!

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[–] chexmix113 15 years ago

Yes, your right. He did show up on his bro's list. And his brother was sure waiting for him to come do him in, because he knew he was next in line on that list...LOL.

I need to see this movie again! I first saw it on some cable channel yrs. ago. Then I thought, man, this is a really good movie. Then that same yr. found that dvd on sale during halloween time for 4 bucks!! Right by that big ol' Frankenstien statue...LOL.

I went crazy getting movies out of that bin...LOL! But my movie collection is somewhere else right now....but man, I'm going to have them shipped to me as soon as possible!

bye all

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[–] media_HO-HOlie 15 years ago

confusing movie
"I need more sex, OK? Before I die I wanna taste everyone in the world."
-Angelina HOlie

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[–] kingaliencracker 14 years ago

Adam stated in the movie that God told their father that Fenton was a demon and needed to be destroyed. But their dad refused God's will, so he was punished.

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[–] HassyBoy 14 years ago

Ok... I just finished watching this movie and I think that the reason Fenton was revealed as a demon was because of the acts that he would have committed later on in his life, when he is older.

Near the end, Adam said that Fenton keeps the bodies as trophies, meaning that Fenton had become a serial killer. However God warned the Dad that this might happen and told him to kill Fenton before he becomes evil and turns to the dark side. However God also knew that due to the father and son love, Fenton's father will always try to show Fenton the right path towards the light, and God. However the Dad did not succeed and his method of trying to show Fenton who God is, was not correct (hence the imprisonment of Fenton). Alternatively this made Fenton move more towards the dark side, leading him to killing his father and later on in the future all those people.

It wasn't the lack of faith that made Fenton into a demon, it was the fact that he did not try to understand what his father was doing. If he only asked his father to help him see what he sees instead of blanking everything out, then he might have seen the reason why his father was killing those people (demons).

It is like if one day Jesus comes to earth and tells everyone he is the son of God and he has returned. The most likely scenario would be that he will be sent to a mental hospital or in the worst case, prison lol. However if people had faith, listen to him and understand where he is coming from and what he means by saying “he is Jesus”, then there might be a chance that he is right. BUT that is very unlikely in the world we are living in today.

The end of the film showed that Adam was right all along and the people he and his father were killing were infect bad people (demons). But again there are arguments against his actions and whether or not what he was doing the right thing and if that was the best way of approaching the problem. (Different argument)

This was what I understood anyway...

I hope this helps :)

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[–] milo44 11 years ago

I remember a part when Fenton as his father what God said , and his father says it doesn't matter , we are going to prove him wrong .. and then he makes him dig the hole the next day .. that's when I knew that Fenton was a demon also .

......

I'd like a chance t' shoot at an educated man once in my life .

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[–] milo44 11 years ago

I remember a part when Fenton ask his father what God said , and his father says it doesn't matter , we are going to prove him wrong .. and then he makes him dig the hole the next day .. that's when I knew that Fenton was a demon also .

......

I'd like a chance t' shoot at an educated man once in my life .

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[–] fiatlux-1 14 years ago

I interpreted the killers as demons in the supernatural sense, and Fenton included. Notice how he glared at the father all the time, once he learned of his father's mission? How he was horrified at his father for capturing these other demons (and a sly thing added by Paxton is if you look you see the captured demons STARING at FENTON as if he could help or they knew him!).

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"Penfold, shush."

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[–] 14 years ago

[deleted]

[–] whitespirit26 14 years ago

Hon, it's a movie, one that's open to all KINDS of interpretations, supernatural and otherwise. In the film, the only thing that's proven to be supernatural is the father and Adam's ability to see hidden evil; that's it. Fenton is by no means confirmed a demon, since his actions could be easily explained as insanity, and the people killed weren't even necessarily demons; they were only confirmed to be KILLERS, human murderers. We have those in this world, you know.

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[–] ninjastark5 10 years ago

You've forgotten about the distorted video tape and the fact that that none of the police officers could remember Adam's face. Within the logic of the film I think the only interpretations where the pieces fit are ones that include supernaturally obtained knowledge and supernaturally executed concealment.

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[–] dolores_medina 10 years ago

You've forgotten about the distorted video tape and the fact that that none of the police officers could remember Adam's face. Within the logic of the film I think the only interpretations where the pieces fit are ones that include supernaturally obtained knowledge and supernaturally executed concealment.

Also remember the FBI agent that went to talk to Adam when he was dressed as Sherrif. We know he got a good look at him In Doyle's office. because they show him lookin in, and looking at "fenton" and asking " want me to stay?"

And yet, h talks to him at the end, and doesn't recognize him.

The Movie will NOT allow us to escape with a " vague" insanity/mental illness diagnosis. it is a supernatural event. God picked The Meeks family to slaughter demons. Anyone that tries to find a vague/ambiguous ending simply does Not wish to see the ending the movie gives us for personal reasons.

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[–] ninjastark5 10 years ago

I absolutely agree. I posted a similar sentiment on another thread about a poster who was performing mental gymnastics and ignoring certain details all because he didn't wan't to accept what the movie was presented.

It's not supposed to be a documentary, I don't get why anybody's beliefs should feel threatened by fiction. I mean you can say that you don't like what the movie is saying but it's ridiculous to bury your head in the sand and pretend that it isn't saying it.

Ps: good spot with that FBI agent, I completely missed that one.

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[–] gsmame 10 years ago

I also agree. It's pretty obvious Fenton was a demon, but that he couldn't be killed until he turned up on God's list. Adam says so in as many words at the end of the film.

I'm not sure his Dad was supposed to kill him (not sure he turned up on his list at all) so I'm not sure his dad was being punished for not undertaking God's will. Seems plausible though.

I was pretty disappointed that the film ended the way it did (God exists and tells his legions to brutally kill bad guys by way of Otis axes), but it definitely did end like that.

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[–] king_of_bob 10 years ago

It's been a while since I saw this movie, but am I right (or wrong) in thinking that the young Fenton was revealed as a demon BEFORE he had committed any murders?

It's alluded to but not stated outright. The father makes mention of the Angel telling him things he didn't want to hear about Fenton. That thing turns out to be that Fenton is a demon.

Were any of the other 'demons' killed BEFORE they had done anything wrong?

What? Fenton wasn't killed until after he had killed many people. The Gods Hand Killer was in fact Fenton. The case Doyle was working on was the murders Fenton committed.

No demon in this movie is killed before they commit their "evil deeds." Including Fenton. They were born demons, but they don't make the list until they commit evil deeds. In theory, if a demon were able to fight their urges they would never make the list.

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[–] faithdwnsouth 9 years ago

No, the angel told the father he would become a demon. He but because of his fathers love for him and the fact that fenton was not one yet he believed that he could still save him. Remember him telling Fenton the angel said he would be one and that the funny thing was he was the one afraid of Fenton.

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