MovieChat Forums > Frailty (2002) Discussion > Is this Christian or anti-Christian prop...

Is this Christian or anti-Christian propaganda?

posted 8 years ago by GarrettWNNZ
12 replies | jump to latest

The older brother was considered a demon to "God" before he killed his father, and at that point his father had already killed an innocent man.. yet in "God's eyes" the father was holier than the son?.. does this mean that someone who refuses to acknowledge "God" is more evil than someone who murders innocent people?

And even if we are talking about real demon entities who live inside those human bodies, there's nothing that makes them worse than "God's soldiers", both are shown committing evil acts. There is no good side nor bad side.

Even with this the writer expects us to believe that the father and the younger brother were in the "right" for killing these "demons"?... that they were some kind of "heroes"?.. I don't think so.. according to this film:

Kill for God - HOLY
Kill for yourself- DEMON
Do good deeds - HOLY
Do good deeds but refuse "God" - DEMON

How does that even make any sense?.. what if "God" asked the father to rape children?.. would that be considered "holy" because he was personally asked by it?

[–] TheSonomaDude_Returns 8 years ago

Why does a movie involving religion have to be propaganda? Can't it just be a movie without people thinking it's trying to push some sort of agenda?

[–] Starduster (268) 6 years ago

This is very true. The movie is not trying to "push" any sort of agenda.
If you dissect the movie bit by bit, there are MANY ambiguities to religion and certainly nothing that would suggest or promote any sort of agenda.

I have listened to the writers commentary. While I sort of understand his viewpoints. I find them lacking validity. One could challenge and offer opposing points to the scenario he suggests.

Most religions do not promote the ideas of vigilante justice as a reason to kill, UNLESS there is immediate threat to human life. Young Fenton was considered a Demon but he hadn't killed anyone or committed any crime. He was opposed to the killings. He killed his father only after he had exhausted most other options. He tried going to the authorities and he was not taken seriously. His own life was threatened when he was locked in the cellar for a week. He was released only when he sided with his father in the killings, and was then asked to become a killer himself. It was only THEN that he killed his father. How would this action make a boy a Demon?

If HE HIMSELF saw NO compelling evidence that the people being killed were Demons, he would have no reason to want to kill them and would view his fathers acts as dangerous and sinful. He would not want to participate in such acts.

The movie simply presents a moral dilemma where there is NO WIN for the boy.

This is the movie in a nutshell

[–] Faridah (1363) 7 years ago

I'm a Christian. The Bible clearly says "Thou shalt not kill." It doesn't you shouldn't kill unless I tell you. It says don't kill. It even goes deeper and said to hate someone in your mind is equal to murder. So no killing period.

This movie is not about religion. It's about a fathers growing deep and deeper into madness. Kinda like The Shining. Two boys see their dad losing it. He attempts to bring them down with him.

[–] ExTechOp (2770) 6 years ago

But the bible god orders a LOT of killing, so that argument falls short

[–] Jinx (3726) 6 years ago

Right? He’s killing people left and right in the Bible. I don’t think that people who talk about god being so loving have actually ‘read’ the OT

[–] spurtle467 (1547) 6 years ago

The way I see it, Matthew McConaughey wouldn't have starred in it if it were anti-Christian since he, judging by his Oscar acceptance speech, is pretty religious himself. In fact thinking about that helped me work out the twist before it happened. I figured that these visions that Adam and his father were having were probably true and these really were sinful people, because MM would want to be in something with a pro-Christian angle, and therefore was probably the Adam character all along who was the one having these visions, rather than the brother.

[–] Starduster (268) 6 years ago

The writing does not follow any real logic that is religious based.
GOD is supposed to be the one who see's all and knows all. Man doesn't have these powers and to have them would be defined as "superpowers" like young Adam described them.
A person who doesnt have superpowers (like young Fenton) cant be faulted or declared a demon because he doesnt "see" the evil.
IF a person who does not have this "vision" were to kill someone, he could not be certain that who he was killing was evil. He has to relay on his fathers "visions" (or madness) to guide him. What evidence does he have as to whether or not his father is insane. To ANY rational person this would appear as insane not to mention; murder is illegal.

God is the giver and taker of life. Why would he need mortal beings to perform these tasks. Humans can screw up or make mistakes, and if caught, will have to pay the price for their actions.

Your last statement is a bad example. God wouldnt ask anyone to rape a child. The man who committed foul acts against the children was considered a Demon. So God shouldnt ask you to commit an act that would make you"demonic"

[–] Keelai (34864) 6 years ago

It's been a few years since I've seen this movie, so I'm going by memory. What is considered good appears evil and vice versa which is the reason this movie is a great thriller. One of my favorites.

I'm not sure if vision in the best word. They had a type of insight into the true nature of the person when they touched him or her. They also could see the crimes that were commited.

God has different helpers on Earth. For instance, missionaries spread the Word. Others may help the poor in his name. This family fought demons.

You have it reversed. Fenton didn't have the insight because he was a demon. Also, the angel informed the father who didn't have the heart to kill Fenton.

[–] Starduster (268) 6 years ago

> You have it reversed. Fenton didn't have the insight because he was a demon. Also, the angel informed the father who didn't have the heart to kill Fenton.

You are correct.
HOWEVER, I took the scenario from an opposing point of view. It still stands up.
ALL the demons that were killed, HAD committed terrible acts. Fenton was called a demon BEFORE he had committed any acts at all. The writer used the act of killing his father as a basis to try to prove that Fenton was a Demon. (I DONT BUY IT) so does that make ME a demon.
Demon aside, what Fenton did could well be viewed as a desperate act to stop further deaths and possibly his own. He WAS rightfully afraid of his father and his actions particularly after he had been locked in the cellar for a week. He was mainly kept alive by his brother bringing him water.
What HE saw was his father had become an "madman" who's madness had effected his little brother. If he couldn't see the visions of the demons acts, its not his fault. Given these circumstances, he did not act out of wanting to kill. He aced out of desperation.
Fenton was not put on any actual "Kill" list until he was well into adulthood. By that time we were lead to believe (without evidence) that he had killed many more times but NOT by Gods orders.
IF he killed, he was not a "Gods Hand" killer. So THAT would make him a Demon. But can a decent 12yo boy be a Demon before actually doing evil acts?
When young Fenton suffered, we ALL suffered. I FELT HIS PAIN!
Matt O'Leary did an Oscar winning job (in MY Book) of making ME suffer with him.
Maybe we are all demons for siding with him.

[–] Keelai (34864) 6 years ago

"But can a decent 12yo boy be a Demon before actually doing evil acts?"

Yes. It wasn't his acts that made him a demon. He was just born that way and his behavior would eventually conform to what he always happened to be. As an adult his behavior has completely conformed to his nature which is why he becomes a serial killer. That's the way I interpreted it.

He didn't just kill his father. He killed someone who was on God's mission to rid the Earth of Demons which made Fenton's act especially evil. (Of course, the irony is that his father tortured him, but the twist was his father meant well since he only wanted to save Fenton from his demonic nature.)

The genius of the writing is Fenton does appear to be a normal boy who is caught up in a nightmare when his only caregiver has seemingly gone mad and is killing innocent people. I agree about feeling his pain especially in the opening minutes when he realizes his father is insane.

The many twists are that the people aren't innocent, his father isn't mad and Fenton turns out to be the bad guy. What we initially believe is happening is wrong.

This movie reminds me of Carrie. Carrie appeared to be a teen who wanted to be normal, but she had a religious fanatic mother. The twists were the mother was the good one and Carrie was evil.

I agree about O'Leary's wonderful acting. I'll add Bill Paxton's excellent direction and Brent Hanley creative script. This movie was completely underrated. What a shame!

[–] Starduster (268) 6 years ago

I am actually working on an exclusive posting of the question. Is YOUNG Fenton a demon and was he born that way.
I know the movie presents him that way.
My argument will present points to the contrary or at least to argue that he is just a normal kid with no particular powers or abilities and has therefore been put in a situation where he may ultimately make some wrong choices through no particular faults of his own,

BTW
Carrie is a very different scenario. I would definitely argue against the fact that Carrie was actually "evil" in her character and her mother was Good. The mother was beyond a fanatic, who believed that normal sexuality and her daughters normal development (puberty) was evil. Carrie DID have "superpowers" which she could not fully control and were apparently unleashed when she was unduly provoked or threatened,
Its difficult to predict where these abilities may have lead to but I dont think she genuinely wanted to hurt anyone who hadnt hurt her.
Anyway its another discussion for another board.

[–] Philhelm (509) 3 years ago

I don't think it's propaganda.

For the context of the movie, God, angels, and demons exist, so killing demons masquerading as humans is righteous since they are not in fact humans. The movie ultimately makes it clear that the supernatural elements are real, but only after goading the audience into believing that Bill Paxton was simply a deranged a serial killer. In addition, the acts aren't really tied to traditional theology, so the religious elements are used for the sake of creating a supernatural thriller.