MovieChat Forums > Frailty (2002) Discussion > Am I missing something?

Am I missing something?

posted 14 years ago by reggers20
28 replies | jump to latest

ok from what i understand... dad has a vision, god tells him to slay demons with his children... fenton doesn't believe him, so conveniently god now says that fenton is a demon b/c he is scared of his father who he believes is murdering people... but dad doesnt want to kill his son so as punishment god kills dad via fenton.... how does that work? was god also using fenton who is supposed to be a demon as a tool, i feel like that is ironic somehow... also later on in the movie we find out that fenton starts to murder people to lure adam to him, so wtf... apparently all the demons in the movie are murderers but the only reason fenton murdererd people was to lure adam to him and as a result of his childhood... i feel like god really failed at being god and this was a terrible movie... it had so much potential but.... when it is revealed that adam and the father did infact have supernatural powers i was like durr thats dumb... and why deceive the audience just for the shock value... that served no purpose what so ever... when going into a movie at the very beginning it is nice to know under which rules the movier operates under... having the audience believe that one set of rules are in place then completely change them at the end is infuriating...

wow, that was more of a rant than a coherent thought... sorry

[–] becwalker 13 years ago

I totally agree. It started off as a straight forward creepy horror movie about an insane Dad and ended up being a supernatural religious movie. Plot twist fail.

[–] reggers20 13 years ago

yea majorly... i have never watched a movie and was like wow this is good... oh man this is great... then wtf???? i was literally angry after the movie was done... also on a side not matthew mcconaughey did some excellent expressionless acting that he is so well known for... guess it worked for this movie him being a serial murderer and all

[–] Moss-37 13 years ago

I really didn't have a clue what was going on in the end....and still don't...I'll shall ponder no more,as I really can't be arsed to work it out.

[–] icxnamjah 13 years ago

I look at it this way. It was not god commanding them at all. It was the devil the whole time manipulating them into thinking that they were doing gods work. The people they deemed to be demons were just normal human beings that did evil things and were likely going to hell anyway. Satan just used this family to bring more souls into hell. Remember when Adam was watching that cartoon? They stated that god does not force anyone to do anything. No point in showing that to the audience if didn't mean anything. Also the Brazilian or Spanish name for this film is Devil's hand.

[–] reggers20 13 years ago

what a cop out.... in the whole movie they never even mention the devil... so you cant just bring in a third party and call it a solution... that is like saying 1+1=3 b/c 1+1+1=3

[–] SolaufeinSA 13 years ago

The movie doesn't have to contain a little explanatory disclaimer like most crap. The movie was thought provoking and with these kinds of films you should always expect that things might not be what they seem. It was pretty shocking but definitely not genre changing. You're all retarded.

[–] reggers20 13 years ago

.... it really wasnt that thought provoking... outside of why the heck would you end a pretty good movie like that..... obviously i thought there was going to be some kind of twist but there was like three and one was unnecessary....

[–] jamieevanson 12 years ago

my 2pence for what its worth. dad has visions , kill demons, adam too can see, fenton is an up and coming demon , cant see , fenton kills dad cos he thinks he's a murderer , fenton not yet a demon until now , fenton goes on killing spree , adam then gets his brothers name , adam kill demon his brother demon .

[–] Man_Who_Lived_Twice 12 years ago

fenton not yet a demon until now

No, Fenton was described as a demon way before he killed his dad. It's just we didn't know that until later in the movie - unless you guessed it when his dad said he didn't want to believe something he was told by an angel about his son, and it was pretty easy to guess that.

adam then gets his brothers name , adam kill demon his brother demon .

Huh?

[–] akg96-1 8 years ago

What is said on wikipedia about this movie is that the murders take place in front of the young sons and committed by a beloved father is considered "disturbing" and "an abuse of cinematic power." For insight check that site out for a crazy Bible story "Binding of Isaac". I've heard that great people meet in great places - yeah, like big ego full of themselves. So likewise, dumb ass people meet in dumb ass places, & this movie is one sorry dumb ass flick, that is unless your religious, believe in demons & god in some crazy way (& it's almost all crazy), etc. So SolaufeinSA, you're right - you're all retarded. And that's why I turned the channel after enough. Like how the song goes, I'm not gonna study war no more, etc., but in this case not gonna study crazy crap no more.

[–] vfx_girl 8 years ago

I most certainly agree with you icxnamjah!

[–] hfctorch 13 years ago

I think the movie is based on the old testament of God. Where God asked Abraham to kill his own son Isaac. God was very ruthless back then compared to the bible people read today. I've asked Pastor's why God would ask a man to do such a thing and most have no answer.. saying they will ponder it. I don't believe God intended for Fenton to kill their father. Adam saw the same thing as the father, so we all know it was obviously real. They did cruel things like murdering, torturing, and molesting people. A war amonst demons on earth. Take the story as you will, think all you want... but that is how the movie portrayed it. I thought the father was crazy at first, until the end... when the cameras turned fuzzy as the father said, they wouldn't get caught. Some people said here said it could have been the devil all along... which I have thought of.. so then why was Fenton killing people as well and saving their skulls in his basement? I think it was pretty straight forward he was a demon and God had to choose. Like Abraham killing his son Isaac. This is all old testament stuff not the new testament God.

[–] reggers20 13 years ago

you miss my point... I am saying yes it is clear that the father and adam were on a mission from god and that they were killing demons, It is also clear that fenton was a demon... what i am wondering is what was the point... b/c it seems that the reason why fenton started killing people was so that adam would seek him out? also fenton became mentally unstable soley b/c he was under the impression that his father was just murdering people... I guess you could just chalk it up to a plot hole... but it seems like a major oversight to have the entire premise of the movie so critically flawed... i feel like it would have been a better movie if the "demons" were actually more insidious... instead of just regular murderers and rapists... just sayin

[–] ghost_of_confusion 13 years ago

There is a pretty big gap of time in the movie, so my thoughts are that Fenton was scarred by what had happened, especially killing his father, so he started murdering people after the fact. Since the angels had told his father that Fenton was a demon during his visions, something he didn't want to believe, maybe it was all predestined. Anyway, he knew eventually that his brother would come for him, so he left letters to try and bring him sooner....to possibly kill him, but like Adam said, he had to wait until he was added to the list or else it would be murder. These are just my thoughts, no claims of knowing the actual intent by the writer or director here.

[–] reggers20 13 years ago

yea... I dont mind directors leaving things open to speculation and interpretation... but i feel like he left the wrong things open... it would have been better if kept it a mystery as to weather or not the father was actually talking to god... but instead he ruins it by clearly showing it was in fact god and that fenton was a demon... but they never explain how one "becomes" a demon... or what their definition of a demon was... b/c it obviously wasnt the traditional definition

[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Insomniatic102 9 years ago

You can't say for certain that the ONLY reason Fenton started killing people is because of the experience and pressure put on him. In the universe of the movie, Fenton was in fact a demon. For the sake of the 'twist' we're lead to believe it's all nonsense and insanity, but no. It wasn't god using Fenton to punish the dad for not killing him, it was just a demon killing his dad. In fact, God tried to tell Paxton and warn him about it.

[–] Dejay 10 years ago

I've read an interesting theological argument about Abraham's sacrifice, in a science fiction book Hyperion no less. Sol Weintraub is urged to sacrifice his only child, Rachel, and give her willingly to the Shrike. So he ponders the whole child sacrificing thing.

So he comes to the conclusion that Abraham's sacrifice is a TEST FOR GOD so that man can see he won't ask for or accept sacrifices anymore. Before Abraham ritual sacrifices where not uncommon. With stopping Abraham's hand God is saying that even if you are willing to kill for me, I don't want this *beep* anymore. I guess you have to view this story from the perspective of times where sacrifices to Gods where common.

[–] crazycaleb 13 years ago

The things you list here sound pretty much like many accounts of divine entities to me. Most religious texts seem contradictory in many ways when you think about them for a while. Some refer to these as mysteries to be contemplated, some say that they undermine the legitimacy of the text. I think the movie mirrors that nature pretty well. On the one hand, the movie does a good job of convincing the viewer of the rightness of the quest of Adam and his father, but on the other things don't quite add up.

[–] simonxauby 13 years ago

I've read through the forum, but I think I'll just reply to the first one to make it easier on myself.

Did you ever take into consideration that Adam and his father's visions are what drove Fenton to be a killer, thus making psychotic nuisances of believers and non-believers alike? Although it's clear that Adam was given light into "slaying the demons," there's this certain tone of immorality going on, regardless if he's striking down bad doers to begin with.

If the family were to resemble the story of Abraham, Fenton would still end up as a killer, but not under the terms of his father's "divine intervention." I guess it's implying religion's strong hold over the atrocities that go on in this world, but they continue to go unnoticed because they're working under the name of the Lord.

I don't know. It's 6:20 AM and I feel some of my points are cluttered, but this is my take of the movies after just viewing and skimming through a few IMDb forums.

[–] king_of_bob 13 years ago

ok from what i understand... dad has a vision, god tells him to slay demons with his children... fenton doesn't believe him, so conveniently god now says that fenton is a demon b/c he is scared of his father who he believes is murdering people... but dad doesnt want to kill his son so as punishment god kills dad via fenton.

Fenton was always a demon, nothing convenient about it. God also didn't use Fenton to kill the father. Fenton was destined to kill his father.

also later on in the movie we find out that fenton starts to murder people to lure adam to him, so wtf...

Fenton didn't want to be evil. Note that even as a child, he asks Adam to bury him in the rose garden. Knowing that inevitably, God will send Adam after him. Fenton was hoping that by going on a killing spree, Adam would be more likely to come for him sooner.

But Fenton apparently isn't aware that Adam can't destroy a demon until God puts the demon on his list. No matter how many people Fenton killed, Adam would not come for him until God told him to.

apparently all the demons in the movie are murderers but the only reason fenton murdererd people was to lure adam to him and as a result of his childhood.

Fenton was a demon before the father is even chosen. It's not a result of his childhood experience. It's just who he is.

and why deceive the audience just for the shock value..that served no purpose what so ever

It was not just for shock value. Adam is posing as Fenton in order to get Doyle to go to the rose garden. Flying under his radar by suggesting that he believes demons are not real and that his father was just nuts.

when going into a movie at the very beginning it is nice to know under which rules the movier operates under... having the audience believe that one set of rules are in place then completely change them at the end is infuriating...

The rules never change. You're only being told the story from the perspective of a person who doesn't believe. Since he's posing as Fenton, it only makes sense that he would tell the story from Fenton's perspective. That of an unbeliever.

It's really no different from The Sixth Sense. The rug is pulled out from under you at the end, but nothing has really changed.

Prof. Farnsworth: Oh. A lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!

[–] evydeweird 12 years ago

Ok...
Sorry folks but I really don't understand what's so difficult about understanding this movie:

The dad was not just a killer; he was doing god's work by killing "demons". By killing demons they don't mean people who are possessed by demons but people who murder people, "bad people" as you can call it.

Fenton (the oldest son) was a "demon" himself. The father knew because the angeld told him but he couldn't kill him when the boy was younger but because of all those events (dad who's killing people and so on...) the boy got a twisted mind and started killing people. He killed those people because he wanted to get his brother arrested because he knew his brother was very religious and he could not see that this all was true (the god-thing). He wanted to lure his brother in it by doing the murders and showing it was his brother's work. He really hated god alot ;).

Now, Adam, the youngest one, had this "gift" also from sins he was little. He saw the demons, just like his dad. At the end you can see he shaked hands and held the cop's hand and said: 'you're a good man' because he didn't saw anything bad or maybe nothing :p who knows. Also the detective who murdered his mother, how could he have known if it wasn't true??..

Also all of the camera images which were corrupted etc...
It doesn't have an open ending. ;)

Greetings from Belgium and sorry for my english! ;)

[–] koffeenkreame41-1 12 years ago

That's pretty much it. I'm kinda shocked some were a bit confused on this. On the DVD commentary, the writer, Brent Hanley says that God in this film is based on the Old Testament God. And he even says that the Devil is very much involved in the film. Fenton couldn't see the visions because he was a demon. That scene where he completely turns is when Dad kills the sheriff and backs up into the darkness. Very symbolic as well.

"I am the ultimate badass, you do not wanna `*beep*` wit me!"- Hudson in Aliens.