Brian and Ben sleeping together.....hated it!!!! - Queer as Folk (2000) Discussion

[–] dergil27 12 years ago

When I first saw this episode, I felt sad for Michael. Seems like the poor man can't have anything all to himself. And the way he was told was cringe inducing.

The idea of Ben and Brian sleeping together doesn't seem that farfetched. Gay Pittsburgh can't be that big and both these men were young and unattached. Did think it was strange that they should go all the way down to Florida to hook up. But it was even stranger given Brian's reputation, that the two seemed not to know each other when they first met. So the one night stand actually made more sense, to me anyway.

Agree that Justin deserves much of the blame for the humilitating way that Michael was forced to find out. But Brian actually mentioned that he and Ben had been to the same white party with Michael standing right there. Michael knew what these parties were about and had even been to at least one himself. So he would have put things together anyway. Always wondered about Brian's action here. Simply can't believe that Brian would really be absent-minded enough to slip up in this manner. But I think the lion's share of the blame belongs to Ben. Don't blame him for trying to keep his tryst with Brian a secret in the beginning of his and Michael's relationship. But as soon as Brian brought up the white party, Ben should have realized that Michael needed to know. Yet Ben said nothing, resulting in a public revelation to the embarrassment of everyone present, most notably Michael.

Don't think this was a filler episode on any level. In fact, it was downright pivotal. It marks the end, or at least the beginning of the end, of Michael's infactuation with Brian. Even the B story, with Deb and Jennifer trying to find the identity of "dumpster boy", would be a major plot at a later time.

Brian's action in Michael's shop may have been extreme, but it was very much in keeping with his character. As many have said, Brian never does anything halfway. It also provides a very dramatic ending to one of the major plotlines of the early seasons.

But to answer the original post, sort of anyway about what I hated in this episode. Have to mention that I like Ben, and really like Ben and Michael together. But I don't make excuses for any of the characters. And I hated the way Ben was the most to blame for the way things happened yet nobody seems to hold him accountable. Everyone tends to blame Brian and/or Justin. Ben doesn't even blame himself. In the end it's all about Ben getting mildly huffy about Michael's crush on Brian. And Michael, who has recently discovered in a very painful way that his best friend and lover slept together, ends up apologizing to Ben. This certainly left a bad taste in my mouth.

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[–] kazfinlay 12 years ago

I have watched QAF many times and I honestly never thought about it like that before. I always blamed Brian and Justin but put very little of the blame on Ben for not telling Michael in the first place and the fact that its Michael who ends up saying sorry instead of Ben is so wrong - how did I never see it like that!

In spite of that I do like this episode and it's nice that Michael finally can move on from his obsession with Brian.

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[–] charmingnancy 12 years ago

If I had been in Michael's shoes, I would have been very upset with Ben after finding out about the night he spent with Brian. I wouldn't have been nearly as angry with Brian as Michael had been. Michael already knew that Brian had been with countless guys and that he wasn't normally a "kiss and tell" kind of guy. Ben, however, probably should have told Michael shortly before or after the first time they slept together, which was when they became a couple. Ben should have at least confronted Brian about it and suggested he (Ben) tell Michael about their past together, out of respect for both Brian and Michael. But then there wouldn't have been the drama of Michael finding out how he did, now would there?

This episode, along with most of the episodes from the pilot to right before Justin's 19th birthday (for obvious reasons), was great in my opinion. It finally closed the book on Michael's dream of ever having something real with Brian and made his relationship with Ben stronger.

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[–] Suki_Weeks 12 years ago

At least it took the show away from the tedious Brian/Justin rubbish.

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[–] kazfinlay 12 years ago

Yes too much Brian/Justin for me...it got really boring and to be honest I wasn't bothered if they ended up together or not. They did have great chemistry together but talk about overkill - I really love Michael (don't think there's too many of us about) so perhaps I am a bit biased about it and also I'm British so saw that version first and can't help but think of Stuart and Nathan in the same situations as B/J - just wouldn't happen!

Gone off topic a bit, sorry! Re Ben telling Michael yes that makes much more sense, and considering how zen and perfect he was supposed to be it's strange now that he didn't mention it but then again we wouldn't have had all the drama I agree.

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[–] dergil27 12 years ago

Agree that Brian and Justin got boring to the point of overkill. Also love Michael. But no, he doesn't have many friends on this board. This might change if a few of his character's fans stuck around. But this is way off topic.

And it is true that this episode, like it or not, was a break from the Brian/Justin storyline. Which for me, can never be a bad thing.

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[–] kazfinlay 12 years ago

One of the reasons I've been reluctant to get involved on these boards is because of all the hate towards Michael, seems a tad silly now as we're all entitled to our opinions!

As for Brian and Ben sleeping together that was hardly a suprise there can't be many Brian hasn't been with, what I didn't like was Ted and Emmet at the gym saying how they wouldn't be able to cope if it was their boyfriend who had slept with Brian...Michael was dealing alright with it until they started in.

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[–] dergil27 12 years ago

It was only Ted who said he wouldn't be able to cope. But Emmett's words were not much comfort either. On first seeing this scene my reaction was "Some friends these two are."

Mentioned earlier that Ben and Brian sleeping together made more since than not. Actually had a problem believing that neither Michael nor Emmett had not at least caught sight of Ben at one time or another. But the idea that Ben didn't at least know of Brian, considering his reputation in this world, stretched credibility to the breaking point. So, when ep 212 came about, it actually provided a reason for Ben and Brian to appear to be strangers when Michael was around.

Not telling Michael does seem out of character for Ben. But, as other posters have said, this show has never let such trivialities get in the way of heightened drama.

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[–] kazfinlay 12 years ago

That's very true, Ben was no stranger to going to Babylon etc so it is strange that they hadn't encountered him before. You would actually imagine that every time Mikey met someone he would be thinking 'has Brian been with this guy' I think they did have a conversation once about Brian being with every bloke in Pittsburgh...apart from Michael and Emmett.

I suppose too that Ben wasn't perfect and was hoping that Michael woudn't find out about him and Brian, and yes it did add to the drama which I don't mind too much. As far as storylines go there were a lot worse than this one.

Ted and Em definitely weren't being supportive friends, maybe they thought that honesty was the best policy?

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[–] dergil27 12 years ago

As far as Ted and Emmette go, honesty would be abmirable if Michael had asked for their opinion on the matter. But he didn't. In fact they are the ones who brought the subject up. So, it is hard to defend their unhelpful words.

Yes, one would think that every time Michael picked up a guy, he would wonder if Brian had already been there. And again, given Brian's prolific tricking, it's actually hard to believe that Ben is the only man Brian and Michael ever "shared".

I liked this episode and thought the Ben/Brian connection made perfect sense. But I do agree with the original poster that it tainted Ben and Michael's relationship for a little while. And that it's unfortunate that Michael can't be allowed to have anything that hasn't been touched by Brian Kinney.

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[–] kazfinlay 12 years ago

Yeah I don't mind Ted and Emmett's honesty but just wait until you are asked next time guys!

I wasn't a big David fan but I suppose at least he was something that Mikey had and Brian had nothing to do with - unless you count that visit to the baths - I'm always annoyed how long it takes Michael to work out that Brian and David were at the baths at the same time - come on he's not that stupid!

How do you feel about Ben, I see that some people really don't like him but for the most part I thought he was good for Mikey - well apart from not admitting he had been with Brian I suppose. He definitely wasn't perfect but that makes him more human.

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[–] dergil27 12 years ago

It's rings true that David might not have encountered Brian before, as he was no longer into the club scene. And it's also true that David is one thing that Michael had that he didn't share with Brian. However, it seems that Michael did have to share David with an unknown number of men willing to give the doctor a handjob. And Ben and Brian's encounter happened years before Ben ever met Michael, while David had to lie and sneak off to the baths in what was supposed to be an exclusive relationship. So it isn't really worth the trade-off.

I like Ben, and I like Ben and Michael as a couple. Believe I said so in this very thread. But I do not coddle or make excuses for the characters I like. This might make it seem that I don't like him in some of my posts. There are a few people here who don't like Ben. Most seem to dislike him because they think he's boring. But a couple of Ben's detracters seem to genuinely dislike him for his envy, arrogance, near infidelity with the bug chaser, and other things. But these things never bothered me about the character. For myself these flaws kept Ben from being too perfect. These same imperfect qualities are why I don't find him boring as some others do. Actually, I have also said that these qualities make him more human.

But most of the posters here appear to like Ben. And of those that like him, many believe he is to good for Michael. This I vehemently dissagree with, and explain why I dissagree with by speaking of the downside of being partners with Ben. Also, as I said before, I call my favorites on their mistakes rather than try to make excuses or blame others for their behaivior. So, I really like Ben quite a lot, even though some of my posts might make it seem otherwise.

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[–] kazfinlay 12 years ago

I hated the storyline where David went to the baths - I thought it was out of character for him and I'm not sure I would have forgiven him as easily as Michael did. So yes I think you're right it's not much of a trade-off at all, Ben may not have been honest about the past but he never cheated on Mikey (although he did come close to it I suppose).

I like that Ben isn't perfect too, Ben being 'zen Ben' all the time would be so boring. I wasn't annoyed that he got all jealous of Mikey's comic book doing so well when his own book was disliked and rejected, I probably would have felt the same way if I'm honest.

I wouldn't have thought that Ben was too good for Michael, they both have their faults but have been able to work through them and seem to have a good partnership unlike some of the other couples on the show. I try not to be too biased with regards Michael as he is my favourite but a lot of people seem to really hate the character - I'm not a Justin fan but can see his good points too - if I really try!

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[–] dergil27 12 years ago

I absolutely detested the "David at the baths" story. It is one of only two episodes that I hate so much that I can hardly stand to watch them. David and Michael are supposed to be in a monogamous arrangment. And since David called all the shots in this relationship, you can bet it was just as much or more his idea as it was Michael's. Then David breaks his own rules, both cheating on and deceiving Michael. One can only assume that what David really wanted was to have Michael all to himself while he did as he pleased. This is obviouse by his jealousy when Michael returned home after their fight. And Michael's excuse for forgiving him is ridiculous. Because they are men? What about the lying? What about the fact that Michael was apparently not supposed to indulge in the same sexual freedom as his partner? What about David not really seeming to be all that sorry, even trying to compare Michael's night of dancing to his trip to the baths? But all these "trivialities" are swept under the rug because David is a man. And according to Brian, men aren't meant to be monogamous. Never mind that the arrangement the couple had was almost certainly David's idea to begin with. So in the end, Michael allows Brian to convince him to forgive David's lying, cheating, and hypocrisy, because it seems that even Brian has more say in David and Michael's relationship than Michael does.

I am a big fan of a flawed imperfect Ben. In the beginning he was pleasant enough, but a little too put together. Then came the the birthday party, the steriods, the jealousy, the Anthony episode, and so on. Many viewers who like Ben like him in spite of these drawbacks. I like him because of them. Might seem strange, but the more mistakes he made the more I liked the character.

Agree that Michael and Ben had a good relationship. And unlike most of the other couples on the show, they were able to work through any problems that they did have. I've had dicussions with several different posters who insist that the other main couple on the show had a better relationship than Ben and Michael. But I think that the fact that this couple is actually still together when the series leaves off speaks for itself.

Wouldn't worry too much about being biased in favor of Michael. Many here have no problem giving free reign to their bias against him. So why shouldn't the opposing view be permitted the same freedom?

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[–] kazfinlay 12 years ago

I couldn't agree more with what you have said about David...I didn't totally hate him until this episode. He wanted Mikey to move in with him so that they could be a proper couple and when Mikey said no David dumped him rather than keep their relationship going and trying to work towards them eventually living together. He was also jealous of Michael spending any time with Brian but didn't feel much guilt about going to the baths and his excuse - to feel young again (I think that's right) was pathetic espcially as he was with a young good looking man. Michael definitely forgave him far too easily and I'm glad that he eventually managed to grow up and make his own decisions away from Brian.
Which is the other episode that you hate, I hate watching the custody battle and sometimes forward through it.

I loved the steriods storyline, it was the first time we saw a real flaw in Ben and it made total sense that he would do it and I also loved the conclusion to it with Michael offering to inject himself so he would have HIV too.

I think that the main couple have a dreadful relationship, both of them with different men most of the time...living together and not living together etc etc...one of them incapable of showing how he feels about his partner until the partner is almost killed...Brian might be 'beautiful' and great in bed but there's more to a relationship than those 2 things and I think Justin is better off without him.

That's true, there doesn't seem to be a lot of love here for Michael and that's fine but it's nice to see that not everybody hates him.

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[–] dergil27 12 years ago

I already thoroughly disliked David. So the baths incident was just another of several reasons to do so. But, now that you mentioned it. I do remember thinking David doing this, as well as his reason, was out of character. This is not because I wanted to like the guy and was dissapointed in him. David was an attractive man who took care of himself and seemed very confident about his appearence. And as you said, he already had a young man at home. Just didn't make sense.

Besides holding hypocrisy and lying up as justifiable, the other reason I hate this episode is Michael's behavior. His tendency to be nearly everyone's doormat was never more egregious than it was here. Michael not only lets David completely off the hook, he pretty much condones his actions. And rather than make his own decisions, Michael lets Brian make them for him. Just as he allowed Ted, Emmett, and even Debbie to make his choices concerning David earlier in the season. It's difficult to know what Michael really wanted from this relationship, as he seemed to just let himself be told what he should care about by everybody else.

But Michael did begin making his own decisions later. One was going after Ben even though everyone, Brian included, dissaproved. Deciding to quit his job and buy the comic book shop was another. The steriods plotline was another example of Michael solving his own problems. Brian did try to help against Michael's wishes. And Ben's treatment of Brian may have spurred Michael on to act faster. But Michael delt with Ben on his own without help from anybody.

I hate the custody battle as well. It's one of several reasons that season five is by far my least favorite. Another reason is one of episode 512's main storylines. I do like the bit where everyone gets their wedding invitations and the connecting scene with Ben and Michael in their kitchen. But the whole show is ruined by it's "The homo-haters are getting rough so lets abandon our country to them and run off to Canada" theme. One could write a book about all the things wrong with this scenerio. This is not only the stupidist idea ever conceived by this show. It is also the most idiotic idea I have ever seen on any television program ever. This is why I can no longer bear to watch it.

Don't find the relationship of the main couple "dreadful", but I do agree that the whole thing seems to be based mostly on sex and how beautiful Brian is. From what I have read, even fans of the couple seem to focus on these two things. But that's just not enough to keep me interested. Still sorry that they ended as they did. Justin might be alright but I'm not so sure about Brian.

One of the best things about qaf is the way you get to watch as the characters grow, and their relationships with one another change. And Michael's change from overly dependent, indecisive and childlike to a more mature adult who could make his own choices, and his evolving friendship with Brian, was one of the most interesting themes of the show.

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[–] kazfinlay 12 years ago

I didn't mind David at the very start as I think he gave Michael confidence to believe he was attractive and that not everybody wanted Brian - but apart from that he was not a nice man.

That's so true!! Did Michael really even want to be with David, when David asked him to go away for the weekend it was Debbie who said yes and when Ted and Emmett were teasing him about David being his boyfriend he didn't seem too happy about it.
Michael really did grow up and was a totally different man by the end of the series so much more confident and sure of who he was and not afraid to do something Brian wouldn't approve of.

The Canada storyline was ridiculous, no idea what the writers were thinking when they came up with it. As you say you could write a book about the stupidity of it, if only it was so easy to sell your house, find another house, find jobs, schooling etc in a matter of days and the reasons for going are so bad - really poor story for Mel and Lindsay.

Justin really grew as a character too and I feel he would better off with somebody who didn't want to trick every night...yes Brian was beautiful and yes he was good to Justin with financial help etc but they wanted different things in a relationship ie romance, committment...being able to say 'I love you'.

I liked the characters of Brian and Justin separately but maybe not so much as a couple.

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[–] dergil27 12 years ago

In the beginning, I liked David. Actually felt terribly sorry for the man for being interested in someone who longed for somebody else. But over time, David was shown to be overly possesive, controlling,condescending, and hypocritical. No, he was not a nice man. But David did show Michael there was another world out there beyond the bars, and the clubs. He also got Michael, ever so briefly, out of Brian's orbit. It would be going way to far to say David was good for Michael. However, there is little doubt that Michael did learn and grow as a result of this relationship.

While I liked Brian and Justin as a couple, as the series progressed, they became less and less interesting. There is only so much sex to the exclusion of almost all else, I could stand. As for the romance itself, you are probably right about the two being unsustainable as a couple due to their different needs in a romantic relationship. And while I agree that if Justin needs more then he should have it, I still can't help but feel bad for Brian.

Also greatly prefer Brian and Justin separately. In fact, Justin's or Brian's interaction with pretty much any of the other characters is far more engaging than most of the conversation and time the couple spend with each other.

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[–] kazfinlay 12 years ago

I think I felt a bit sorry for David too at the start when he realised that Michael had feelings for Brian but the sympathy didn't last long. You have summed up his character perfectly, I remember him telling Michael that he promised himself never to lie to anyone he loved....but apparently it was fine for him to go out looking for young men while Mikey waited for him at home.

It did seem that all there was to the Brian/Justin relationship was sex, or that was all we saw anyway and it did get boring. I wanted to feel bad for Brian but couldn't, he knew that Justin wanted more from him but wouldn't do it. Then again why should Brian change into something we wasn't...now I'm confused again.

I did love how much Justin grew as a character, he was such a brat at the start - although I forgive him for this as he was a teenager - and he turned into a mature young man. Also I was glad he and Micheal ended up as friends, I really liked their friendship and it was interesting to watch it's developement throughout the series.

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[–] dergil27 12 years ago

Justin did grow a lot as a character. In the beginning he was, and acted like, a mouthy childish teenager. But over the years Justin went through a lot, and it's reflected by his ever increasing maturity. In fact, sometimes he appeared to be a little too mature. It just seems unlikely that a twenty-one or two year old gay man would already want to settle down and raise a family. And just before the series left off, Justin was spending a good deal of time hanging out with two different old married couples. But for the most part, he transformed from child to adult in a believable and satisfactory way. And when you go back to season one and see what a bratty teenager Justin was, it's actually a bit funny and a somewhat shocking when compared to his later years.

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[–] carjones51 11 years ago

It might interest you to know that Randy Harris (Harrison?) wasn't a fan of the Brian/Justin relationship either. He had issues w/Justin's growth (or lack thereof) on the show.

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[–] dergil27 11 years ago

From the way Brian and Justin's relationship was portrayed after season two, it seemed the writers shared Harrison's view.

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[–] 11 years ago

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[–] dergil27 10 years ago

I kind of agree about the lack of growth between Brian and Justin during season three. They get back together, but none of the problems that broke them up in the first place are resolved.

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[–] Insomniac23 10 years ago

I saw the British QaF first too...someone on a fanfiction site directed me to it...I watched the series all in one sitting, then immediately went out and bought the American version. I love, love, LOVED Vince, Stuart and Nathan (from the Brit series) and had a VERY difficult time acclimating to Michael, Brian and Justin. I think Justin grew on my first...for not other reason than he was cute, I think (Nathan was occasionally annoying). Brian though, I felt was cold and...IDK...maybe it was the acting (just seemed stunted), but I didn't like him...in the beginning. I think, after I finished season one of the American show, and things went a different way (sort of) than the British series, I was able to adjust...because there wasn't really any more, well, in the British version they did THIS! Not sure that makes sense. Michael though, I've never been able to get completely used to (whereas I adored Vince)...Michael's so...whiny and it's hard to take. Lol. Still though, QaF (both British and American) is one of my most favorite shows ever!

As for Ben telling Michael. Hmm. Honestly, I'd rather not know. But then, with Justin's big mouth, I guess that would be impossible. Lol. I supposed that one of them (Ben or Brian) should have told him. Brian should have known better...I mean, earlier on when he catches David in the Baths and doesn't tell Michael about it, Michael's upset...but I understood Brian's silence at the time. But yes, I do think I agree...that, in this case, Ben telling Michael would have been the smart, drama-free thing to do. But then, when is this show drama-free? Hehe.

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[–] dergil27 10 years ago

Yes, had the whole thing not happened in the most dramatic way possible, the episode would have been about something else.

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[–] dergil27 9 years ago

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[–] dergil27 10 years ago

Yes, it was nice to get away from the b/j stuff for a short time.

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[–] briebo1 12 years ago

Completely agree with your summations on it being very realistic that Brian would have slept with Ben, or at least somebody Michael had been involved with given the odds, and agree that this episode was pivotal in putting to rest Michael and Brian.

I tend to like Ben most of the time, but admittedly his holier-than-thou BS does tend to annoy me, especially in this episode. It infuriated me that he turned this into Michael's issues with Brian. I can understand why Michael was upset about Ben and Brian sleeping together, but I think Michael getting upset about it is completely uncalled for - grow up, people sleep together, it didn't mean anything, it's just sex. Though I understand Michael's feelings, I have no sympathy for them, he is making an issue out of a non-issue in my opinion due to his own hang-ups which he shouldn't indulge. However, Michael has every right to be very upset about Ben not telling him about it in my opinion. And it is on Ben to tell Michael, and he should have the moment he found out Michael and Brian were close friends. I don't really fault Brian here, as a person who has been in this situation, it is a dilemma, you know your friend deserves to know but also there are issues if you should be the one to tell them. If you tell them before their partner than it may cause problems in their relationship and you should have butted out to let these events unfold in the timing that was best for the couple for example. Or maybe your friend has already been told and you bringing up the subject is just re-opening a sore spot your friend actually didn't want to discuss with you. Regardless, there are delicacies that a friend needs to be aware of in this situation. But a person in Ben's position should have offered up that information to their partner, and to me what is hurtful is feeling that you are being kept in the dark as to something by your partner AND your best friend. The betrayal there would be very difficult for me, but I would be able to forgive my friend not telling me much easier than my lover not telling me. I hate that Ben seemed to get off scott free for this.

A small detail I did enjoy, and I liked how Ben was honest with Michael and very caring towards him and not as judgmental as he could have been about Michael's curiosity, was Ben's recounting as to why Brian was so "amazing" in bed. We are always told that Brian is great in bed, that is a given, but there are many aspects that make someone great in bed - stamina, size, passion, reciprocation etc. The way Ben recounted as to why Brian was great, not to mention turning me on a bit, in my opinion gave us some further insight into Brian's sexuality which I appreciated. The scene of Ben telling Michael about his sexual encounter with Brian was my favorite in the episode, all in one scene it was a turn on, it allowed Michael to "experience" what being with Brian was like in part allowing him to move on, and I thought it was also very touching and laid a foundation for how much Ben cared for Michael in how he was with him in this scene. QAF perfection in my opinion.

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[–] 12 years ago

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[–] dergil27 11 years ago

Absolutely agree that the real problem is Ben failing to tell Michael about his and Brian's past. It was up to Ben as Michael's lover to tell him. And to not do so caused Michael great distress and embarrassment. Yet Ben barely acknowleges that he should have said something. Even Michael doesn't see the real "crime" here, preferring to blame Brian for not saying anything. While just the fact that is was all on Ben to speak was reason enough, never thought about the problems Brian would run into if he did tell Michael. Also hate that Ben got off completely. And never understood why no one considered this an issue at all.

It was inlightening, if a little hard to believe, to hear some of what makes Brian's !**ks legendary. The idea of ben telling Michael about his and Brian's encounter seems a bit creepy to me. And suggests that Ben is rather clueless about Michael. Ben probably did mean it to be something along the lines of sharing the experience of Brian with Michael. But think it only made Michael more jealous and unsure of his own skills as a lover. Ben is a writer but all he can come up with is that Michael is "fine"?

Come to think of it, not only is it realistic that Brian slept with Ben, it's not so realistic that this is the only time this has happened. Michael says Brian hasn't been with anyone he's been with. But how can he really know this when Brian doesn't (usually) kiss and tell when it comes to his sex partners. One thing I do fault Brian on is bringing up the white party right in front of his best friend and his own immature big mouthed boyfriend. Still seems very suspicious.

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[–] 10 years ago

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[–] dergil27 12 years ago

About Michael not having anything untouched by Brian. What I meant was it was a problem for me. But I think that Michael was jealous of both Ben and Brian. However, since Michael's sexual feelings for Brian are the much bigger problem, they are the main issue of this plotline.

Out of Brian,Justin, and Ben, Justin is the least to blame for the White Party disclosure in my opinion. Still question why Brian would bring the party up with Michael, and for that matter Justin, standing right there. It's almost as if he wanted Michael to find out. But that might be too subtle for this show. And while keeping mum about your sexual partners is admirable, it would have been clear at this point that someone needed to discuss this with Michael. And as Michael's lover, that task should have fallen to Ben.

Believe this storyline or one like it was needed. Yes it added to the drama that was already there, but you can never have too much drama. Said earlier in the thread that it clearly marked the beginning of the end of Michael's longing for Brian. And when Michael actually admitted to his feelings for Brian to Ben, it changed and probably improved the two of them as a couple. Always loved the way the Ben/Brian tryst was never mentioned again. But it was always sort of hanging there, and it added another layer to the tension in Ben and Brian's non-relationship.

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[–] dergil27 12 years ago

And as someone else said, this episode did get us away from the Brian/Justin storyline for a little while.

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[–] kazfinlay 12 years ago

Thanks!! I love QAF and am wishing I had joined in with the discussions here much earlier.

Michael could be annoying I wont argue with that but it seems that there's more criticism of the character than good things said about him - but again we are all entitled to our opinions :)

My problem with the B/J open relationship is - did Justin really want it that way - as you said. He left Brian to be with a man who promised the opposite of such a relationship (although it didn't work out that way) and sometimes I just felt Justin would have been happier if they didn't go out lookingf for tricks all the time. I do see what you mean about Brian being honest from the start - can't fault him for that.

I definitely don't hate Brian and Justin's story but it wasn't my favourite part of the show.

Never seen Madmen - might give it a go sometime.

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[–] SillyGayBoy 11 years ago

They had a huge fan mail reaction wanting to see more footage of the sex scene. I felt this storyline was only done to take Ben in a different direction then the former boyfriend.

Debbie like David not Ben.
David did not have HIV Ben did.
David did not ever sleep with Brian but Ben did.
David cheated on Michael but Ben did not.

There are many more opposites. Maybe I will remember more later. They just wanted David out of our minds.

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[–] dergil27 11 years ago

The sex scene was short and filmed from only the waist up. That was quite tame for this show. Always wondered if this was because even if it occurred before Ben and Michael were together, it still might have been a bit much. Or, as Ben was larger than Brian, it might have simply looked awkward.

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[–] SillyGayBoy 11 years ago

It may have made Brian seem less powerful being so small next to him. It may have seemed out of place; correct.

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[–] dergil27 10 years ago

True, while it's hardly a rule for the one on top to be more powerful or larger, many have come to think it looks strange if if the top is smaller or not clearly dominant. Or at least that's the case for me, even though I know it makes no sense.

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[–] Insomniac23 10 years ago

Lol. Brian has slept with just about everyone--except Michael--so I wasn't at all surprised that he'd been with Ben. I think I felt a brief sadness for Michael, but then just moved on. I mean, it had happened ages ago...not recently, so...what's the big deal?

As for Justin letting it slip...meh! I'll have to go watch it again, but I don't remember it upsetting me. It was just sort of an oops moment. He's a teenager, after all. Lol. There were other moments with Justin that annoyed me much more.

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[–] bardmore 9 years ago

Just started watching QAF. So, yeah, Brian is an incredibly good looking guy, but Oh my God!, quite likely one of the most despicable, reprehensible characters ever. He is so smug, so vicious and nasty that I can barely watch when he is on. He makes the idiots in the thankfully departed, unlamented "Looking" seem noble. What a puke!

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[–] smooth_op_85 9 years ago

I kind of don't buy Brian and Ben together. They would've had to find out that they lived in the same town at some point, and how he is so understanding of Brian and Michael, I wonder if that plays a part in why he thinks the two should continue their friendship as it was a defining one in Michael's life

I think while it was a way for him to finally get over Brian, I think this was the wrong way to do it. It was a bit unnecessary as Michael and Brian were already starting to drift apart

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[–] 9 years ago

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[–] dergil27 9 years ago

Don't understand what finding out they lived in the same town has to do with anything. But that brings up a question I keep wondering over. Why did two gay men who lived in the same town not hook up til they were both in Miami?

True, it wasn't necessary. But it was a very dramatic and pivotal way to get the point across. And a bang is always more interesting than a whimper. And a swear the pun wasn't even considered til after it was on the page.

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[–] mhenderson22 9 years ago

I wasn't surprised because Brian slept with EVERYONE! LOL

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[–] 9 years ago

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[–] dergil27 8 years ago

As stated before, it would be more surprising that they hadn't slept together.

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