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When does the 'Times Square dream' happen? SPOILERS

posted 10 years ago by alexandrimdb
9 replies | jump to latest

Something i've been wondering about is when the 'Times Square dream' from the beginning of the movie really takes place. Let me explain: so right when that scene is over, we hear David talking to McCabe about the dream, trying to figure out the meaning of that dream. The fact that David is talking to McCabe means that he must have experienced the dream during the lucid-dream. A dream in a dream so to speak.

But the way it plays out in the movie, is that after the 'Times Square dream' we see David waking up in the real world and in the scene that follows we see him react to the environment that was in the 'Times Square dream', so we must assume that he did see that dream on that day and in his real life.

So i'm wondering, did he see the dream in his real life or in the lucid dream? Did he see the dream in both his real life and the lucid dream? Or did he just remember the dream from his real life, without realizing and tells McCabe about it?

Or, considering the fact that David and McCabe aren't talking specifically about Times Square, maybe they are talking about a different dream, or dreams. Maybe David was experiencing multiple dreams, that involved loneliness. And this also raises the same question, did he experience those dreams in his real life or during the lucid dream?

To me it seems much more logical that he would have such dreams about loneliness during the lucid dream, because he is alone during the lucid dream. He dreams that he is with McCabe or with Sofia, but technically he is alone and frozen.

The moment he experiences the dream at the beginning of the movie, is when everything was still alright in his life (or so it seems), so why would he dream something like that at that moment in his life? He wasn't exactly lonely and was happily surfing trough his life.

Head scratcher guys, but this really fascinates me! Love to hear your thoughts.

[–] Mississippi20 10 years ago

I haven't seen this movie in a few years (I'm eagerly anticipating the blu-ray release next month) - but the New York Time Square dream was just a "regular" dream he had; I think it's obviously meant to foreshadow what's to come in the film with dreams and the subconscious. David's subconscious shows he's afraid of being alone - not that he necessarily is alone, but he's afraid of it just the same. Or maybe he doesn't think he's alone but maybe his relationships are fleeting, hollow and not emotionally satisfying. When he meets Sophia, she seems like the one that can change that.

When David enters his lucid dream - the "splice" point where he enters the lucid dream is the morning after the night club.....David is simply remember his "real" dream from his "real" life before the splice point.

[–] bill_kilgore 10 years ago

It's a real dream that he had, and he recalls it to McCabe during the lucid dream which, as far as he knows, is his real life.

[–] laurentiu-v-1 10 years ago

The problem with that dream it's that the voice that wakes him up is Sophia's voice ... but he didn't meet Sophia yet.

[–] HowYaLikeDemApplesWill 10 years ago

Not quite - David awoke to Sophia's voice within his dream, and then ultimately awoke to Julie's voice that she had recorded onto his alarm.

Because remember, after he awakens to Sophia's voice, he then has the Times Square dream sequence driving a Ferrari he does not own.

Whose idea was it for the word "Lisp" to have an "S" in it?

[–] LeenyBabii 8 years ago

Sorry I know this is an old post but I only just watched this movie today.

I would be completely content to accept the first half of the movie as real and the second half (after the splice in the street) to all be the LE doing its job but the Sofia on the alarm clock at the beginning has me only believing it 98%.

I do get that David woke up to Sofia's voice inside the dream, but how do you dream of someone you haven't met yet, just as the person above you posted?

If I go along with my interpretation then David first meets Sofia when Brian brings her to his party, which he has in real life. He's never heard her voice before this party, how can it be in his dream before then?

Also what has me not fully invested in this theory is that he is talking to Dr McCabe about this Sophia voiced dream, but Dr McCabe is only in his lucid dream. So he's talking to a fictional person about a real dream he had? I suppose that's believable actually considering all the talk of subconsciousness and whatnot. I could accept that now I think about it. But the voice before you've met the person thing? No.

The fact that LE was also an actual thing inside the LE lucid dream is also quite interesting to me. If I was running a company that made your dreams seem real, I don't think I would include said company inside the 'real dream', you know?

And if literally the whole movie was a dream up until he opened his eyes then when did he go to sleep? And why?

[–] HowYaLikeDemApplesWill 8 years ago

"I would be completely content to accept the first half of the movie as real and the second half"

That is but one interpretation...because this is Tech Support's explicit explanation...does not make it so.

Sophia's voice in his dream, supports one of the other interpretations: that the entire movie is a dream.

Vanilla Sky - Theories
1 The movie is just as its explained. David commits suicide, he is frozen and the splice occurs, etc. The sound you hear is David awakening in the future.
2 Everything up to the car wreck was "real" and the rest of the entire film was ALL in David's head as he lie in a coma (until the end when he wakes up).
3 The entire film is a dream as David struggles with his vanity, his sexual past, his ideal woman, etc. The only "real" scene in the entire film would be the last, as he wakes up.
4 The movie is writer Brian Shelby's fictional story about his friend (David Aames). A story of the sour and the sweet. He plays the unsung hero to the playboy.
5 The whole thing is a dream in that the depictions we see take place as reflections within a dream. However, the events are real until the splice, at which time they become fiction. Tech support states that David has been asleep 125 years. David's sessions seem to be reflections of his past. I think a fair interpretation is that the reflections have been tampered with by the subconscious to reflect his love for Sophia and the regret of his carelessness with Julie. You are relying on the unreliable narrator as to the details like his love sort of being all around him before he meets her, his fears, dates and the music. Like retelling a story that you know ends badly, you may create clues to take the edge off or tip off your subconscious that this is a reflection, a memory, not reality.
6 - Christian Metaphors - A Story of Divinity David commits suicide, finally driven to it by the guilt over the death of Julie Gianni. As he is dying, his life is passing before his eyes. While his life is passing before his eyes, he is also being tempted to sell his soul to the devil for the chance to make things right (i.e. the dream like utopian scenes between Sophia and David).
a. David is asked many times "Did you sign a Contract?
b. Lucid Dream, Lucifer?
c. Both women at LE have red hair.
d. Tilda Swinton has hot sauce behind her.
e. More importantly, Tilda Swinton is exactly the kind of personality you would expect the devil to have at the time of one's death, vaguely sexy, assuring, calming, and persuasive...
The ideas of David's Christlike-ness are from the following ideas. He dies at 33, as did Christ.. His father wrote "THE BOOK"... The book was called Defending the Kingdom... The magazine is called Rise...

Whose idea was it for the word "Lisp" to have an "S" in it?

[–] xstrguy-613-123965 10 years ago

The OP is confused about what a lucid dream is.

A lucid dream is not a "dream within a dream". It is a dream in which the dreamer is aware that they are dreaming and may be able to exert control in the dream.

[–] greenfairyXO 9 years ago

no the OP gets what a lucid dream is. they were asking if the times square dream happened also during the simulated frozen living "dream" of LE. which yes, would be a "dream" within a "dream" and its possible to have dreams within dreams even while being aware you are dreaming. you can be aware you are dreaming, and even make your own decisions in the lucid dream and still not have control over everything your sub conscious makes happen and brings to the table during the dreaming. people seem to think when you lucid dream you have all the power of everything and its one solid dream. this is not true.

[–] sage2112 9 years ago

The subconscience is a very powerful thing.