MovieChat Forums > Storytelling (2001) Discussion > Connection between the two stories

Connection between the two stories


I'd really like to hear some opinions about how those stories are connected,
or aren't they?What is Solondz' point in opposing those two parts called 'fiction' and 'non-fiction'?
Could it be that the story becomes fiction as soon as you write it down?(as for the rape scene in part 1)?
Is filming a more objective approach to reality?Or why is part 2 called non-fiction?
I look forward to any reply!

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There are at least 2 ways to approach the "fiction" and "non-fiction" titles of the stories in the film. I agree with what you've said, about a story becoming fiction as soon as it's written down. That, for sure, is one of the points that seems clearly made in the first section of the film. On a more obvious and self-referential note, if we look at Tobey as being Todd Solondz himself, then the story becomes, quite literally, "non-fiction". This segment, to me, seems to be a knee-jerk reaction by Solondz to confront his critics onscreen.

I think the key statement in the film is when Tobey's producer is grilling him about his project, reprimanding him for feeling so superior to his characters and hating them. "But I love them..." he responds. And so I think Solondz loves his characters, too. While certainly not all of his characters are likable, or normal, or clearly good and evil, he cares about them all and that's why his films are successful (for the most part). So many films are filled with throwaway characters that merely move the main plot forward. In Solondz's films, I'd be hard-pressed to find any such characters.

I find it interesting also that Scooby's dreams, which seem like little more than wishful thinking and adolescent daydreaming at first, become so extraordinary unrealistic and downright idiotic when we see them in "American Scooby". In that way, film clearly divides non-fiction and fiction with merely the addition of an audience. Or maybe that's reaching. Just a thought.

I LOVE certain parts of this film, like Vi telling herself repeatedly, "Don't be racist, don't be racist..." when preparing to have sex with her black literature professor. The scenes with Mikey and Consuela work particularly well also. But I feel like the director's more devoted to his "non-fiction" tale than his "fiction" tale, and that ultimately hurts the movie. I suppose I haven't tackled the question at hand in depth, but I wanted to add some food for thought about a very interesting, if flawed, and wrongly slandered film.

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ok i have to agree that yes this movie is wrongly slandered. i thought it was good, not amazing, but what do u expect? i mean, in our society, we base a film on how many times we cry in it or how many explosions happen, while this movie is not overly touching , it carries a beautiful air of indifference, and that touched me more than anything. He is trying to show that people walk around (mostly kids) totally indifferent and everybody else feels nervous, they are the future right? and then because we're so damn nervous , we laugh it off...haha haha ahhh don't we all feel safe and happy again?
Damn you people are so not catching on (ominous to last paragraph)

I think its hard for somebody (ex: solondz) to put out a movie that rings true to themselves. For the sole reason that not a lot of people ARE going to understand it or at least appreciate it. But then, who ever thought that movie production was supposed to be an unselfish art or some crap like that, should realize that people do things in vain. Period. And it makes us sick, we always strive to do something that makes us feel like we thought of someone else, but if we did, it's only because we want them to treat us differently. There is no such thing as selfless art. The only kind is non-existant. It hasn't been created. And never will be.

There's no escaping it, and if anyone had really paid attention to the plot and not so much the crafty camera work and shocking scenes etc, they would have seen that the director is trying to be selfless in being selfish. It's not his first work, so obviously he is not "just a bad" director, he has shown himself before to be true to his thoughts and creativity, yet you were able to relate to that one.

TIP # 1
Just because you can't relate to something, doesn't make it bad.

although this time he is making a more crude attack with his thoughts. He's more than obvious when it came to the boy and Consuela, why is everybody pretending like it was "symbolic" or a "nice touch"? It was downright obvious and ugly if you ask me, I think he's trying to make a point here. Nobody is paying attention, he'll keep making it more and more obvious until he is reduced to every other sell out director. wake up please .

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I believe that the only connection is that the first story was the truth that Selma Blair had written about her encounter with her professor. The second story was Scooby telling the truth but the director turning it into fiction and making Scooby's life comical and sort of exploiting him. I did not like this film by the way. Well, I take that back; I did not like the first part of the film. I thought that maybe he could have got the same point across using some sort of tie between the two stories instead of two seperate stories all togther. I also thought that it was weird because the first one was so much shorter than the second story. Had it just been the second story I would have liked it better. I really found Scooby's little brother funny!I thought that this movie would be good because I did like "Happiness." I thought that was a good movie and maybe because I did, I had such high expectations for this movie and thats why I was so let down by it!

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I kind of agree with icsisrain. In a way, it was somewhat ironic that the first segment was called 'fiction' and the second 'non-fiction', because on an emotional, subjective level it should have been the other way round. I guess what Solondz is trying to say is that in every story, be it fiction or non-fiction, there are elements of both.

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[deleted]

(my first post on the imdb-site,but hey...here goes nothing !)

to me,there wasn't a real connection between the STORIES.
I just saw the movie as a whole and these are some thoughts I had :

* the students judging eachother's short stories were reading way to much in fiction,they were over-analysing things,thinking too much about it.After all,they are only stories.On the other hand,the people watching the documentary are laughing their *sses off,having fun,not thinking about the fact that it are real people they're having a laugh at.It's something that reminds me of modern film making : lots of writers/directors want to make the most intelligent film ever,movie critics spend way too much time whining about scripts that have holes and such,while the regular movie-watcher is hooked on voyeuristic reality TV and mockumentaries without ever realising they're watching actual people.

* it also seemed to me that Solondz was trying to say us that everything can manipulated,fiction or non-fiction.The girl's short story actually happened,but to me it seemed like she "exaggerated" the whole thing,she made things seem worse than they are.Was it actually rape,or did she made this out of it ? (c'mon,if I was being raped,I would resist a whole lot more - but don't get me wrong,I do think it actually was degrading what she had to bear)
The documentary,on the other hand,was manipulated in a way that is quite opposite to this.Toby made a tragic story,something sad into a funny movie,something people could laugh at.

* both main characters in the stories are both used/abused.After loosing their dignity (one way or another) they try to find some understanding (the girl by telling her story to her classmates,the boy by going home to his family),but they both got nothing : the girl's fellow students don't care,the boy's house and family are (quite literally) gone.

Anyway,these points might be totally ... er ... pointless :)
I actually didn't like the movie,but I have to admit it made me think.Maybe it was Solondz point,but I prefer watching movies for fun.
(and with fun,I don't mean Air Bud,which I HAD to watch,together with my niece...)

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[deleted]

I appreciate your questions and acknowledge that my response may be quite unsatisfactory. But rather than paste the whole, long thing in here, I figured I'd just give you the link. peace.
See my comments here:
http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0250081/board/thread/4373544?d=4530067#4530067

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I just wrote up my little review of Storytelling, and I wrote that what was also interesting was that a lot of the plot in the great "Nonfiction" section was completely forced and cliched. Football players in comas? A hypnotized father being controlled by their children? A wrongfully fired housekeeper taking revenge on her former employee? I half expected a sort of tongue-in-cheek typical Hollywood ending, like the family wakes up and realizes they're happy and love each other after all, the son comes out of the coma, as if he were asleep for awhile, etc. But, instead, we get the sad and powerful last line, and it really linked up both parts for me.

I think "Fiction" was fairly weak compared to "Nonfiction," but just as important thematically. Vi asks the professor in the bar, "Am I going to be a successful writer?" Is any more a pipe dream than Scooby wanting to be a talk-show host? Thousand of people try to be writers (or filmmakers or talk-show hosts) and never, ever make it. To succeed, Scooby is focused on "getting connections," and indeed, this is the only reason he agrees to do the documentary (and also how he gets into Princeton.) Maybe Vi only is seeking connections as well; she really can't stand her professor's books, after all, but, in the bar, she has no trouble lying and mentioning to him how much she likes them.

Another link is that both stories are fiction, and this really goes the heart of what filmmaking is all about. It is very basic, in a way; we watch actors move their through a pretend story about pretend people, and we laugh, cry, get annoyed, or walk out of the theater. We are manipulated by the people who appear in and made the movie, and when the lights come up, our own lives continue.

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Initialy after viewing Story Telling (for university) I thought little of it, other than it being one disturbing film. It is only now after reading film review after film review and post after post that I am starting to appreciate what a amazing film it is and how much more there really is to it.

A film based on Character as much as any other film convention or even more. The realism experienced through out the fulm raises many questions as we can learn and indentify with parts of the story or characters. By saying 'identify' I do not mean directly necesarily... for example although we may not have experienced having sex with our teachers the realism of telling a story which is not believed or further more questioning the truth in others is a point strongly raised. What is truth in what we hear and what we watch?! how can we identify truth/lies fiction/non fiction reality/fantasy?? Along the lines of the film Momento only what is there is fact. Time creates fiction. Changed by memories or by perceptions. A reality which cant be avoided.

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