Actors and post-sync - Werckmeister harmóniák (2001) Discussion

[–] Mr_Rictus 19 years ago

I was wondering about that too, it bothered me a bit duing the beginning, but this film is to magnificent to be bothered by.

Does anyone know?

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[–] Rurik_Snorri 19 years ago

Since most both German and Hungarian films are looped in post, I would imagine that that is the case. Hungarian is so insanely difficult to learn, read, pronounce etc, (it is a Asian language and an oddity in Europe; the difference between German and Hungarian is almost as great as say, English and Korean) and practically no non-Hungarians speak Hungarian so I would wager that Schygulla's voice was dubbed over by another actress. But it does sound like her.

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[–] mac_alain 17 years ago

I would wager that Schygulla's voice was dubbed over by another actress.

I thought it was very noticeable that her voice had been dubbed, whilst with the other actors I did not notice it. But then, reading subtitles does, of course, divert the eyes.

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[–] Bitter_Almonds 18 years ago

Ha! I thought it was part of Tarr's sonic aesthetic to dub everything post production. I was listening to this movie with headphones and I couldn't get past at how crisp and clear everything sounded... as if it was processed to sound like that. There was a bit of a "hollow"/echo-ey quality to everyone's voices, as if they were speaking in a large, empty building. I've heard a similar tone in two of his other movies.

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[–] explainmyself 17 years ago

I thought the non-matching mouth movements to the voices almost added to the film's abstract non-specificness. The film's whole aesthetic seems like it could've emerged from any decade, and certain technical details (being somewhat rough around the edges while still artfully done) enhanced that feeling. Doesn't feel like a film released in the year 2000; doesn't really feel appropriate to stamp this movie with any sort of dating.

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[–] catlebrity 15 years ago

It really does have a timeless feel to it. Though I was often reminded of 60s films. The only thing that really stamped it as a 2000 film was the modern fan in the awful kids' bedroom.

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[–] m_tom 19 years ago

I'm sure it's dubbed.
1. the movement of the actors' lips doesn't exactly match the words they say
2. i find it impossible for foreign people to speak Hungarian so clearly without an accent
3. the voices of the German actors in this film are very very similar to voices of Hungarian actors (i can't give you names, but i'm sure i've heard their voices in other Hungarian movies before)

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[–] Rurik_Snorri 19 years ago

Quick question. I am guessing you are fluent in Hungarian. Was all of the dialogue for the native actors dubbed later in ADR? I know this was common in Poland, Czechoslovakia, Russia, etc., (not to mention Italy of course), but I'm curious as to how common it is these days?

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[–] Zelva 19 years ago

Yes, they were dubbed.

The film's cast list and that on IMDb gives the following:

Tamás Bolba .... János Valuska (voice)
Péter Haumann .... György Eszter (voice)
Marianna Moór .... Tünde Eszter (voice)
Attila Kaszás .... The Prince (voice)

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[–] Rurik_Snorri 19 years ago

Since we brought this up - can any Hungarians answer the question, what percentage of local films have the majority of the sound looped (ADR)? Curious.

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[–] rooprect 15 years ago

The dubbing was ok, but I really wish directors would avoid it. It's more than just a distraction; it's impossible for the dubbed voice to perfectly match the actor's emotion at the moment of delivery.

There are 2 films which I could almost call my favourites of all time, but the dubbing presents a significant flaw. Werckmeister is one. The other is Aguirre by Werner Herzog.

My guess is that European directors don't consider it a big deal because European films are almost always dubbed and distributed in different languages. But in the USA, if the actors' mouths don't match perfectly with the words, it conjures up memories of those absurd old Godzilla movies. Maybe that's a problem we Americans need to get over, but all the same it never hurts for a director to be a perfectionist. No movie should ever be dubbed for any reason whatsoever!

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[–] nowideau 13 years ago

Popular German actors would have certainly helped sell the film in that country and amongst a European art house audience in the rest of Europe. So using non-Hungarian actors might have been necessary to getting crucial international financiers aboard. This is a guess, but it seems a fairly logical one :)

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[–] Bob_Brooker 13 years ago

Except that there was no popular German actor in this film, e.g. Lars Rudolph is a bit actor, here in Run Lola Run www.tinyurl.com/btc3z7w

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[–] GrigoryGirl 15 years ago

Yes, Lars Rudolph (who played Valushka, the lead) was dubbed into Hungarian, along with Hanna Schygulla.

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