MovieChat Forums > Sen to Chihiro no kamikakushi (2003) Discussion > I never found this film scary, but rathe...

I never found this film scary, but rather cruel...


A family, totally lost and confused, decides to eat some food that a moron left sitting outside with nothing to keep people away from it. What were the spirits expecting? So they turn a little girl's parents into literal pigs and decide to "turn them into bacon"? Isn't that a little over the top? 😟

Apparently Haku is a twelve-year-old boy, and a spirit who can't find his way back to his own river. He steals a gold seal, and yes it's wrong to steal things, but Zeniba puts a curse on a twelve-year-old that makes him bleed internally and nearly die? That's pretty sadistic if you ask me. 😨

The spirit world seems pretty cruel. I'd hate to see what would happen if some poor sucker decided to bulldoze the old amusement park and build a factory or a Wal-Mart! 😱

"The 21st century is all flash but no substance." ~ Smog City

reply

You should probably stop watching animation. I don't think you understand how this works.

reply

There's no reason to be condescending, and what does the film being animated have to do with anything? I'm aware that it's fictional, or perhaps you didn't fully understand the point I was trying to make.

"The 21st century is all flash but no substance." ~ Smog City

reply

I get that point. But you're missing something very important. Spirits are not people. Their norms are not our norms. What you consider cruel, they consider acceptable.

Can't stop the signal.

reply

That makes more sense, I guess I was viewing the film the wrong way, since the spirits mostly take human-like forms but they're entirely different from humans. Thanks for clearing that up :)

"The 21st century is all flash but no substance." ~ Smog City

reply

I just think of it as an anime version of Alice in Wonderland. It's a bunch of wild characters with wild traits.

Can't stop the signal.

reply

It's very similar to Coraline and The Water & The Wild as well, but Spirited Away came out before any of those books did so I'd agree with you that Spirited Away is closer to Alice in Wonderland. The creator of Spirited Away based the main character on a friend's daughter, the same as Lewis Carrol based Alice on a friend's daughter, so even the inspirations for both are very similar.

"The 21st century is all flash but no substance." ~ Smog City

reply

Very cool. I did not know that about Lewis.

Can't stop the signal.

reply

Funny you should say that, I have a shirt that mashes those two together. I mean, what could be cuter than tea time with Alice and Chihiro?

If everything is not all rainbows and kittens for you today, hopefully it will be tomorrow!

reply

If you see only the physical aspect, you could say the little girl's parents were only eating some food. To the spirits, her parents were indulging in gluttony and stealing.

reply

A family, totally lost and confused, decides to eat some food that a moron left sitting outside with nothing to keep people away from it. What were the spirits expecting? So they turn a little girl's parents into literal pigs and decide to "turn them into bacon"? Isn't that a little over the top?


They are not "totally lost and confused", they are just dumb humans who venture in a place they know nothing about and assume there will be no consequences to their actions (eating food like that in a strange place where there are no humans around sounds dangerous, even without spirits), like often in these kind of stories.

It's more "what were the humans expecting?". From a yΓ΄kai point of view, they totally had it coming.


Apparently Haku is a twelve-year-old boy, and a spirit who can't find his way back to his own river. He steals a gold seal, and yes it's wrong to steal things, but Zeniba puts a curse on a twelve-year-old that makes him bleed internally and nearly die? That's pretty sadistic if you ask me.


Haku is neither 12, nor is he a boy. He's a 1000-years (at least) spirit, a powerful yΓ΄kai of nature, a freaking water dragon. He takes the form of a boy because most powerful yΓ΄kai use their power to fit sometimes in the human world or when they want to conceal their power.
You can't expect yΓ΄kai to apply the same logic than humans. These beings live in a different world, most of the time invisible to human, for an hundred-folds more than any one of them. It's cruel but that's quite common in the spirit world. They don't experiment the world as you or other humans do.


The spirit world seems pretty cruel. I'd hate to see what would happen if some poor sucker decided to bulldoze the old amusement park and build a factory or a Wal-Mart!


The human world has no shortage of cruelty either, far from it.
And to see what happens when humans wish to bulldoze a place protected by yΓ΄kai, watch this other Ghibli, also very good:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0110008/?ref_=nv_sr_1

reply

Well pardon, I didn't bother to extensively read up on yΓ΄kai rules and regulations, I just wanted to see the film. I suppose the next time I watch a film I'll have to research it like crazy first... πŸ˜•

"The 21st century is all flash but no substance." ~ Smog City

reply

Sorry if you took it the wrong way, my post was not meant to be aggressive but to explain to you that it is a common thing with those spirits. It's just a deep cultural thing that most Japanese people have known since childhood through their comics, their cartoons and their grand/parents. And I only know about it because I'm really interested in this part of the culture.

No need to be an expert or Japanese to enjoy this film, far from it, but it helps knowing a bit more about certain aspects to understand and appreciate it even more. Like the "name" part, very important in the yΓ΄kai mythology (and many other aspects of different culture), because it holds its power and its life itself. Which is why it's a big deal when Chihiro is called "Sen" by the witch Yubaba (because the name of human is also very important power wise) when she signs the contract and why Haku is like "liberated" when Chihiro remembers his name when they are flying, or why Faceless is so unstable.

Definitly check Pompoko (also from Ghibli) if you are interested in yΓ΄kai, and it illustrates pretty well your last point about yΓ΄kai retaliation against humans.

reply

I haven't seen Pompoko in years, last time I saw it I was in the third grade and I didn't understand it, so maybe now it'll make more sense. :)

"The 21st century is all flash but no substance." ~ Smog City

reply

The Queen of Hearts was pretty cruel too ya know.

reply

I only have one question for you: have you ever been exposed to actual fairytales, not the hyper sanitized Disney versions, in your life?

reply

Yes, in fact I hardly ever watch Disney at all. The Little Mermaid for instance, not at all the cheery story that Disney made it out to be. The original story was much darker. And The Ice Queen (what Disney's Frozen was based on loosely), was much different and more serious. Most fairy tales end in tragedy, grief or death and Disney covers a lot of it up.

Canada, eh? πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦ :)

"The 21st century is all flash but no substance." ~ Smog City

reply

Ah, alright then. I had actually misunderstood your original post as I thought that you meant "cruel" in a bad way, instead of just stating a fact. I agree, this movie is rather cruel in parts, yet as a connoiseur of fairy tales I've always recognised that as one of the many core elements of such stories. But you know, sometimes it's pretty hard to tell what a person is thinking on this boards, since many posters are Americans who are completely unfamiliar with the original versions. That, and they seem to be influenced by the whole "new age psychiatry" bollocks about children being unable to handle serious thematics such as violence, cruelty and death, because somehow exposing them to the "heavy stuff" would scar them for life instead of helping them mature. This kind of nonsense has been gaining in popularity since the turn of the century, along with the preposterous positive thinking theory, to the point where people in their forties and fifties in my country have started coming out with supposed traumas they've experienced that left them broken inside forevermore. But everytime I hear what they consider traumatic, I'm almost tempted to burst out laughing, for, to put it in my generation's terms, it would be akin to saying: "I'm emotionaly crippled because my parents didn't buy me the Super NES, when all the cool kids had one". In other words, I took you for one of those "Think of the children!" people who need to permanently be bothered about something, protesting against it out of fear that it will end society as we know it. Thus, I'd like to appologize for coming off as aggressive in my post.

Indeed, Handersen's Little Mermaid is pretty dark, though like many of his fairy tales it ends on a bittersweet note, which is undoubtedly due to his Protestant upbringing. I liked the Disney version when it came out (I must have been nine or ten back then), but what bothered me the most as an adult was Disney's obsession with having to insert a villain into each and every one of their films, thereby reducing their stories to a binary good vs. evil plot and defacto negating the possibility to explore other thematics.

Oh, don't get me started on Frozen! I was appalled throughout the whole movie by what I saw. I just couldn't believe how low Disney had sinked with that one, to the point that I started wondering if it would have even managed to hold my attention at all had I seen it as a lad. But I was actually completely dumbfounded when I read in the credits that it was based on The Ice Queen. Way to miss the point by a mile and then some, Disney dear!

In fact, the only recent film of theirs I've enjoyed in any capacity, since Don Bluth left the company, was The Frog Princess, because they managed to put an interesting spin on the original tale without it feeling forced, and they also managed not to go over the top or wander into unfunny territory with their jokes and gags. The fact that it was traditionnaly animated played a big part, too, because I can't really stand the CGI they use, it gives the characters a plastic look that I find distracting and a little irritating.

Since you seem to like classic fairy tales, I'd suggest you to see The Tale of Tales film if you haven't yet.

reply

I know what you mean, it's difficult to tell what people are trying to convey n the IMDb message boards, as it's only typed words. And I totally agree, the idea that kids should have everything negative filtered from the media they watch is just stupid. Some kids can handle the negative stuff and others can't and that's fine, but removing it only raises kids to be blissfully ignorant of tragedy and then when tragedy affects them in real life, they won't understand that sometimes bad things unfortunately happen. I remember when I first saw a horror film in the third grade. I believe it was Stephen King's It or something, and when my friends' parents heard that I had watched a horror film they refused to let their children talk to me because they were afraid I'd show them the film as well. Some parents can really overreact and take everything too seriously.

I liked the Princess and the Frog as well, both for its originality and its use of traditional animation. Nowadays Disney's animation is mostly CGI and it just looks too fake and flashy to me.

Tale of Tales? I have that one on VHS but I've never watched it, so I'll have to check it out. :)

Canada, eh? πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦ :)

"The 21st century is all flash but no substance." ~ Smog City

reply

You got Tale of Tales on VHS? Weird. Just to clarify, I'm refering to the 2015 Matteo Garrone film, which is an adaptation of 17th century Gian Battista Basile's fairy tales, well three of them actually. Are we talking about the same film? Because if not, I'd be very interested in learning more about that other Tale of Tales.

reply

Yup, this is the one from 2015. I have a VCR so I recorded it onto a blank VHS tape myself, but as far as I know it was never released on VHS for sale because it's considered an outdated format for home viewing. Nowadays everyone streams digital videos or they watch DVDs.

Canada, eh? πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦ :)

"The 21st century is all flash but no substance." ~ Smog City

reply

So the parents are not morons for just waltzing in and eating food they see sitting there. No telling how long it has been out if bugs or something has been crawling on it. They just go in and eat since they have money, they can pay whatever the bill would be. Don't you think that's stupid?

They were turned into the very thing they were being, pigs!

If I remember correctly, he did that on Yubaba's order and since she and her sister pretty much hate each other, of course, she would do that to Haku.

They don't seem all that cruel to me. If that's how you feel then maybe you should never go outside. The world isn't so nice either.

reply

They don't seem all that cruel to me. If that's how you feel then maybe you should never go outside. The world isn't so nice either.


Oh, get over yourself. I wasn't suggesting that I didn't like the film because it wasn't "nice" as you say. I'm not one of those people who thinks that movies should all be like an episode of The Care Bears or something.

Canada, eh? πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦ :)

"The 21st century is all flash but no substance." ~ Smog City

reply

You're complaining that this movie is being cruel to kids and I'm the one who needs to get over themselves? Yeah, no. I'm pretty sure you just took my line.

reply

I'm not complaining that the film is being cruel to kids. It's a film, it isn't real. I never said that the scenes in the film were bad or inappropriate, I just thought they were cruel. You're really misunderstanding and taking my original post out of context.

Canada, eh? πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦ :)

"The 21st century is all flash but no substance." ~ Smog City

reply

I just thought they were cruel.


Which is what I was saying. So you clearly also didn't get my post.

reply

My post on the forum is irrelevant. No matter what the post says, there's no reason to be so arrogant or pretentious over a film. It's just a film, and no one person's opinion on it is correct over another. You also seem to be mistaking "I just thought they were cruel" with me thinking that the film is either inappropriate or scary, neither of which apply to what I was saying. Yes, I realize that in the film, the spirits see things very differently than humans and that their rules of order are more intense than human rules, and I understand that their acts of cruelty were more about revenge than just plain evil. But from your comments, you seem to think that I think the film is bad or too violent for kids or something.

Canada, eh? πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦ :)

"The 21st century is all flash but no substance." ~ Smog City

reply

I never once mentioned actual kids. I was talking about the kids in the movie that you were talking about. Hence the obvious misunderstanding on your part. But now it looks like you are bouncing back between trying to "defuse" our conversation, thinking it's an argument and still trying to state your opinion.

reply

Well, I might've missed your point, after all it's difficult to convey a message on a forum and sometimes I misinterpret things. I'm not sure what message you're trying to say, but I apologize if I've completely misunderstood it.

Perhaps my mindset is more like the human perspective than the spirit perspective in the film. Chihiro's parents are well-meaning but greedy and blissfully-ignorant. My view is that they didn't know any better and should be pardoned, whereas the spirits just saw them as pigs and wanted to teach them a lesson.

I still stick by my statement that Yubaba and Zeniba were both being very cruel. However, Zeniba turned out to be a kindly and humble grandmother figure who just wanted revenge on her sister. Yubaba, ironically, is just as greedy if not more-so as Chihiro's mom and dad. She hoards jewels and gold, overworks her employees and uses Haku as a servant. She was very cruel, but every film needs a villain and so her actions did have a purpose. Anyhow, that's just my opinion. I'm not saying it's the best opinion, I'm just stating it.

Canada, eh? πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦ :)

"The 21st century is all flash but no substance." ~ Smog City

reply

Well, I agree with the spirits. Her parents should have known better than to waltz in and start eating food they have no idea how long it has been sitting there.

Yubaba I didn't expect anything nice to come from her. But I must admit when Zeniba entered the scene and finally revealed herself, I found it a bit creepy that she flat out said she would rip Chihiro's mouth off if she said anything and then goes on to be some nice person.

reply

Perhaps Zeniba was only frustrated at her situation, or maybe she assumed that Chihiro was on Yubaba's side. Or maybe the English-dubbed version lost something in translation that would explain Zeniba's sudden change of heart.

Canada, eh? πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦ :)

"The 21st century is all flash but no substance." ~ Smog City

reply

The movie "Spirited Away" is not meant to be scary nor necessarily cruel, but instead it is meant to illustrate the nature of human beings and the human world. Actually, the entire movie is about human beings regardless of whether Chichiro is in the "human" or "spirit" world. If you notice, they actually use money in the movie's spirit world, which is the huge tip-off that they are talking about human beings the whole time (for the most part).

All through out the film, greed and money are the primary cause for trouble. When the parents begin to "help themselves" to the food on the table, the dad actually brags about how Chichiro should not worry since he has cash and credit. That particular line is meant to illustrate how money cannot solve all the problems of people nor of spirits, particularly that of identity and will.

No-face is particularly interesting character because he is relatively well-intentioned, but he replicates literally digests and regurgitates his enviroment which is particularly unkind. If you notice, all the spirits in the bath house dedicate their entire will to pleasing no-face to get some gold, but Chichiro declines the gold because she is in a rush to help her friend. All the other patrons are almost in a mindless hypnotic state lusting for gold, and only break out of it to treat Chichiro rather meanly when they feel she is getting in their way.

Actually, the "real" human world that we do live in is not too much unlike Chichiro's world. It is rare for people to genuinely "scary", but cruelty is rather prevalent. Just as the spirits in the movie offer courtesy in exchange for gold, but show a cruel demeanor when the show their "true" self, or what has become of it.

The concept of name and identity also has a lot of symbolic meaning, since the people often hand over their names in exchange for a job in the real world, much like Chichiro did. People trade in their names for titles such as "doctor, cashier, barista, painter,etc" and are made to forget part of their identity. Zeniba is obviously a capitalist and runs her bathhouse like a retail store or any other modern commercial establishment; with a strictly materialistic mindset of rear-smooching (much like one the singing spirits actually mentions regarding no-face).


The essential moral of the story is self-lessness, for both Haku and Chichiro regain their true identity due to self-less and uninterested acts of kindness.

reply