MovieChat Forums > Sen to Chihiro no kamikakushi (2003) Discussion > Fourth Greatest film of the 21st century...

Fourth Greatest film of the 21st century? Really?

posted 9 years ago by ira_gaines
14 replies | jump to latest

The BBC recently did a poll of film critics from around the world to come up with a list of the 100 greatest films of the 21st century so far.

http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20160819-the-21st-centurys-100-greatest-films

Spirited Away made it to the forth place, and was the only anime to do so, and the only Japanese film to do so.

Is this really justified? I've seen other anime films made in the same time period that I feel were far superior to Spirited Away, but I wouldn't even claim that they necessarily deserve to be on that list, let alone in forth place. What is that makes people rate this film so hyperbolically?

[–] Winstiford 8 years ago

Maybe it has something to do with the English dubbing being better than usual? I thought Spirited Away was nothing short of incredible, but if there are better movies, please tell me so I can check them out.

[–] ira_gaines 8 years ago

See list below

[–] Suzume-san 8 years ago

I hope to goodness that professional film critics weren't watching the ghastly American dub.

[–] binaryvegeta 8 years ago

What anime films did you think were far superior to Spirited Away?

Spirited Away is a great film and deserves to be on that list.

[–] ira_gaines 8 years ago

What anime films did you think were far superior to Spirited Away?

If we're just talking about films made in the 21st century I'd say

Wolf Children (2013) by Mamoru Hosoda

Children Who Chase Lost Voices (2011) by Makoto Shinkai

The Sky Crawlers (2008) by Mamoru Oshii

5 Centimetres Per Second (2007) by Makoto Shinkai

[–] PreachCaleb 8 years ago

I love all those films (exception Sky Crawlers; haven't seen it yet).

Shinkai and Hosoda are some of my favorite directors, not just anime. I have all their works and enjoy them immensely. 5 Centimeters moves me to tears.

That being said, I rank Spirited Away above their works. There is something hauntingly beautiful about it. The pace, the tone, the story, the cross-cultural appeal. Everything about it says masterpiece.

I'd say it's place in that list as one of the greatest of the 21st Century is rightly justified.

You are sin.

[–] ira_gaines 8 years ago

I don't even like Shinkai and Hosoda's works other than the films I listed. My list was based purely on my reaction to those individual films. Like I said, I wouldn't even claim that any of those films deserve to be on the BBC list, but I think they're more worthy than Spirited Away.

Where they excel over Spirited Away IMO is that they appear to have had effort but into both the aesthetics and the narrative. Spirited Away clearly had a lot of thought put into the aesthetics, but narratively it's as flat a pancake. I don't even really remember what happens in between the parents being turned into pigs and being transformed back, other than the girl just hanging out at the bath house. It's a very basic, passive narrative. The stories of the films I listed were much more engaging and memorable to me.

[–] PreachCaleb 8 years ago

That's a shame about Shinkai, as 5 Centimeter's probably isn't even his best work. The video montage at the end is a bit jarring in comparison to the rest of the story. I'd say The Place Promised in Our Early Days has far tighter story telling and much more rounded characters with motivations and characterizations that extend beyond longing for someone.

I don't see how Spirited Away is narratively flat. It's a classic Alice in Wonderland story. Girl caught in a strange world has to find her inner strength through various trials. Friends become enemies. Enemies become friends. Strange new areas are discovered. And always there's a sense of wonder (no pun intended). Basic, sure. But so many great stories are. Passive, not in the least bit. We explore this strange new world through Chihiro's eyes and root for her and her cavalcade of strange friends.

My list was based purely on my reaction to those individual films.

Bingo. And that is exactly why Spirited Away ranks so high on so many lists. While it may not have engaged you, it engage millions across the world. Young and old. Male and female. That is due to the story's strength.

You are sin.

[–] ira_gaines 8 years ago

I'd say The Place Promised in Our Early Days has far tighter story telling and much more rounded characters with motivations and characterizations that extend beyond longing for someone.

Too much high school nostalgia and overly complicated sci-fi sh*t for me. Albeit it was quite a few years ago, but that was my reaction as I remember it.

It's a classic Alice in Wonderland story.

Yes, and Alice in Wonderland is pretty narratively flat (at least the Disney version is). It relies on the spectacle of all the insane characters rather than the plot. The characters in Spirited Away just look strange, but most of them don't act crazy/mad, so it can't even rely on that like Alice in Wonderland does.

Friends become enemies. Enemies become friends.

Who did?

[–] PreachCaleb 8 years ago

Too much high school nostalgia and overly complicated sci-fi sh*t for me. Albeit it was quite a few years ago, but that was my reaction as I remember it.

Doesn't change its tight storytelling and rounded characters. Heck, many people think 2001 is too complicated. Doesn't affect how good it is.

(at least the Disney version is).

That's ok, I wasn't talking about the Disney version specifically. Just the trope of being caught in a strange world.

The characters in Spirited Away just look strange, but most of them don't act crazy/mad, so it can't even rely on that like Alice in Wonderland does.

It doesn't. That's why we watch Chihiro's journey as she finds her inner strength. It's not just about the weird characters. It's how she handles them that drives her story.

Who did?

Haku, Yubaba, Zeniba, No-Face, the baby, Yubaba's hench-bird.

You are sin.

[–] ira_gaines 8 years ago

It doesn't. That's why we watch Chihiro's journey as she finds her inner strength. It's not just about the weird characters. It's how she handles them that drives her story.

This is the part I really don't get. I just don't see a well defined character arc here. Just like Alice in Wonderland. It's a little girl doing fantasy things in a fantasy world. In neither film do I get the impression that they've both been greatly changed by their experience. The films I listed have much better defined character arcs IMO, and they're more central to the story. In fact putting aside anime, I'm pretty sure I've seen better defined character arcs in Disney and Don Bluth films as well.

Haku, Yubaba, Zeniba, No-Face, the baby, Yubaba's hench-bird.

What I meant was which enemies become friends and vice versa?

[–] PreachCaleb 8 years ago

I just don't see a well defined character arc here.

She starts off as a scared, timid little girl, clinging to her parents afraid to even walk down a tunnel. By the end of the movie she's standing up to incredibly powerful witches and creatures with confidence unafraid.

She was worried about starting a new school, but by the end, it's something she knows she can handle. Classic finding inner strength arc. Her experience changed her.

In fact putting aside anime, I'm pretty sure I've seen better defined character arcs in Disney and Don Bluth films as well.

Sure, an argument could be made for that. That doesn't mean Spirited Away's character arc didn't happen.

Friend to enemy: Haku. At first he seems nice and helpful, but then it's revealed he's Yubaba's henchman and the implication is he may have tricked Chihiro into accepting a deal she can't get out of. No-Face also starts off helpful before trying to eat everything, including Chihiro.

Enemy to friend is the rest of the list. Even the entire staff has changed from seeing her as a dirty human to cheering her victory over their boss. Her experiences have not only changed her, but many of the other characters as well.

You are sin.

[–] ira_gaines 8 years ago

She starts off as a scared, timid little girl, clinging to her parents afraid to even walk down a tunnel. By the end of the movie she's standing up to incredibly powerful witches and creatures with confidence unafraid.

She was worried about starting a new school, but by the end, it's something she knows she can handle. Classic finding inner strength arc. Her experience changed her.

I guess the problem for me is that we don't really spend too much time with her before she goes into the Spirit World or when she leaves it. The opening and closing are very brief. Plus, I didn't feel that she experienced much hardship while in the Spirit World, or really had to overcome any major challenges.

Friend to enemy: Haku. At first he seems nice and helpful, but then it's revealed he's Yubaba's henchman and the implication is he may have tricked Chihiro into accepting a deal she can't get out of.

I never got that. His purpose in the story was never clear to me as a whole. He felt more like a plot device than a character.

No-Face also starts off helpful before trying to eat everything, including Chihiro.

He's not really a character though. He can't even communicate.

[–] PreachCaleb 8 years ago

That's the masterful storytelling of the movie. We didn't need a lot of time. In only a few minutes and a few scenes, the movie establishes Chihiro's character, backstory, and motivations.

Plus, I didn't feel that she experienced much hardship while in the Spirit World, or really had to overcome any major challenges.

Separated from her parents (that alone is a major hardship for a child) in a spirit world. Dealing with creatures that want to enslave her. A choice between hard labor or disappearing into nothingness. A giant baby that threatens to break her arm. Witches. Demons trying to eat her.

He felt more like a plot device than a character.

The movie shows he has his own plans as he works against Yubaba in trying help Sen. He has his own motivations and history. Far more than a mere plot device.

He's not really a character though. He can't even communicate.

Those two things are not mutually exclusive. In any case, he can't talk (for the most part), but he most certainly can communicate. Non-verbal communication is still communication. Body language. Actions. All those things communicate.

You are sin.