MovieChat Forums > The Little Mermaid II: Return to the Sea (2000) Discussion > It's baffling to me that people don't li...

It's baffling to me that people don't like this movie

posted 10 years ago by itsElisey
12 replies | jump to latest

For a sequel, (especially a Disney sequel), it is phenomenal.

I've read all the critiques on this board and I agree that it was somewhat surprising that they made Ariel as young as they did in regards to when she had Melody. But the fault lies with the first film, too, in that they had Ariel as a sixteen year old girl who essentially abandoned her entire life for a first love. But when you look outside of the ages in this specific franchise, The Little Mermaid 2 tells a remarkable story.

While I adore Frozen, I find it funny that many credit it with being the first Disney film that gives a non-romantic lead storyline. This movie completely cuts outside that mold. This movie is about familial love, loyalty, the cost of secrets, the cost of not being true to yourself, etc., There isn't a romantic notion in the film. It is about love.

Is Melody selfish? Maybe. Ariel was. But she is also much younger than Ariel was in the original film. She is a twelve year old girl and I've always found her character to be depicted very well for her age. She has a youthful spirit, a youthful disregard for rules. She feels something inherently different about herself, has trouble fitting in, and doesn't feel like she can be honest with her parents about it. Then she finds out her parents have been lying to her. Naturally that would result in a tantrum or some kind of emotional breakdown. Like most twelve year old children, she has an internal idea of right and wrong and she feels like she is right and her parents have wronged her. I think she feels as though all of her mistakes and trespasses on the sea are now justified because it is obvious that her parents have been hiding something important from her.

Then there's the fact that this is a sequel that deviates from the original film. My biggest qualm with Disney sequels is that it is often the same storyline recycled. You can't really say that about this one. Yes, Melody, like Ariel, disobeys her parents in order to be someplace that, according to her parents, she shouldn't be. But this film is about finding yourself and being true to your identity and not about falling in love and having to sacrifice your family for this love.

I love this movie. I really do. It has been a favorite since childhood and rewatching it always puts me in a good mood.

[–] otness_e 10 years ago

While I won't go so far as to say it's "phenominal," (this movie as well as that awful KidsWB Sock Party Ad back in 2002 is pretty much the reason why I have a traumatic hatred of songs), I have to agree with you that the movie's not quite that bad. Maybe not good, but definitely not bad.

I really wouldn't call neither Ariel nor Melody selfish, though, in either of the movies. Selfish would be more like how Emperor Kuzco or Beast or Gaston or Francis Wilkerson acted, and it is very clear they weren't in any way like them at all. Ariel if anything was extremely selfless, saving her friend, Sebastian, and Eric, even when she either didn't need to, or she could ensure her survival, or even when she was likely still angry with Sebastian. I can't comment much on Melody since I haven't seen it from beginning to end, but I'm pretty sure she did similar things as well.

And while I'm not too pleased with how Ariel and Eric approached the problem, considering what nearly happened to Melody during their presentation of her, it's more than a little justified and understandable why they would go to such drastic measures, especially if it turned out Melody inherited Ariel's free-spiritedness. Not to mention, considering the trouble that occurred when Ursula used her eels to spy on Ariel to get to her dad, Ariel and Eric were actually a bit smart creating a wall, considering that would have all but ensured that Morgana can't have her minions spy on Melody from the outside of the wall. I personally think right now that Ariel and Eric's reasons for doing it were understandable compared to Belle's reasons for selling out the Beast in Beauty and the Beast (and let's be honest, there was absolutely nothing understandable about her actions, especially when she knew full well beforehand that Gaston was blackmailing her into marrying him, and the actions of the mob would have made extremely obvious especially to her that exposing the Beast, if anything would just endanger him and his servants' lives), and she certainly had better justification for doing that to Melody than Elsa's parents had in keeping her tormented about her powers (especially when Melody's identity would necessitate her being placed under protection against someone who made clear she was out to kill her, while with Elsa, they could have tried to teach her to control her powers without being afraid of them instead of having her live in constant fear of them). In a way, Ariel and Eric were actually a lot more justified in their actions and reasons for forbidding Melody from going into the sea than King Triton was in the original film (let's face it, there actually was a proven threat to Melody's life in the sea in the form of Morgana, who managed to escape and successfully go underground, and making clear she will strike again. With Triton, there wasn't a specific threat against Ariel in the form of humans, and it was clear that his reasons were motivated more by unnecessary racism than actual knowledge of a certain danger among them, especially when most of the humans we saw in the film were unaware of merpeople, or didn't believe in them). I also completely understand Melody's reasons for her actions as well, considering she just didn't fit in. She actually came across as being rejected more than Belle did in Beauty and the Beast anyways, especially when some of the villagers' statements implied that they probably would have accepted her if it weren't for the fact that she refused to associate with them at all. I also understand her need for answers as well.

And sometimes, telling the truth would actually make things even worse than better. Take Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII. Genesis decided to tell Sephiroth the truth about his origins, thinking that would get Sephiroth to donate some of his cells to stop Genesis's degradation. Instead, not only does Sephiroth (for perfectly understandable reasons) reject Genesis and decide to leave him to rot, but thanks to that knowledge not to mention the disturbation he already got by finding the creatures in the Mt. Nibel reactor and realizing the implications that he might be created the same way before Genesis's arrival, he ended up going nuts from reading up on Professor Gast's research notes and burning Nibelheim to the ground and delusionally believing himself to be the last of the Cetra, and then becoming a huge threat to the planet, meaning Genesis if anything made things even worse for Sephiroth and everyone than better. Had Ariel told Melody the truth, she may just try to hunt down Atlantica to see it and endanger herself in the process, making things even worse than before.

And actually, I don't think Ariel really sacrificed much when she became human. Sure, she's not exactly living with her family anymore (probably the only true sacrifice there), but it's not like she's going to be going to a landlocked kingdom. In fact, Eric's kingdom is right smack dab near a beach, an ocean, meaning she can still get visits from her family and friends, especially when Triton got over his hatred of humans by that point. Besides, how many people actually live with their parents after getting married, or live at home with them after reaching adulthood? My cousins managed to leave the house and marry someone, and I'm not complaining. Literally the only time Ariel actually separated herself from the sea was in this movie, and it was obvious that the only reason she did that was for Melody's sake, especially after the danger Melody was placed in by Morgana.

I will admit that I have a lot of anger and hate for the film since I saw it on Disney Channel, but it's subsided somewhat (not to mention at least Ariel's Beginning was even worse, while the Special Edition actually improved on it. I didn't even particularly mind Melody at all. It was more Morgana that I was irked at). I may actually watch the movie, if only to act as therapy to ensure I break my trauma.

[–] Andthatismytwocents 10 years ago

Again this and the other sequel refer to Disney Co's "indifference" to their Little Mermaid character For what ever reasons despite money and her popularity Disney has a Love HATE (emphisis there ) on Ariel

Premise wise this was a good idea a Disney couple has a child and because of on of the parent's lineage the child is under threat and is in danger from the villain

Excellent Premise now turn it into a two hour or so film
THAT'S THE TRICKY PART

Sadly Disney's crop off writers see a character a specific way and use the one dimensional thinking here Critique ranges from how did a 16 year old girl be a 28 yea old mother (I put Ariel at 30 here but.) And my biggest Pet Peeve was reguritation Tip and Dash (CAN YOU SAY TIMON AND PUMBA?)
Morganna (Ursula WITHOUT the weight problem)

This is not unique here other Disney projects are bigger offenders Beauty and the Beast (can you say Sherri Stoner?)

Aladdin's TV series(how many ways can we remake Jafar Mozenrath Teenage version Malcom McDowell's character Mirage what if Jafar was a Woman?and cat)

Once upon a time TV they treat Ariel like a teen age soap opera though at least the actress they got (who was 30 and just had a baby) was good

Basically it is a good bad movie and could have been alot worse but unless you acknolwedge Esmerelda or the Disney Animals Ariel is the first to have a child but this is nothing important and it the upcoming TV show Decendant's no Ariel Eric NO MELODY So we have to assume she never happened

And a final note with the exception of Mickey and the gang Ariel has the most alternate realities of any of the Disney characters (though Dell comics in the forties and fifties did some way out scenarios Tinkerbell shown with Gepato and Lucifer among others)

If it had seen the light of day Little Mermaids Island by Henson think Dumbo's Circus or if you are familiar with the Groeiler Treasure Chest series of books Ariel had an Island where a Dragon named Scales lived and Flounder had a sister Sandy
(off topic Groeiler printed a story where Cinderella invites her former family to the castle after her happily ever after in 1986)

The LM TV series

The direct to videos (NO CONTINUITY)

The Read Along tapes (continuity issues)

Peter David's Comics not be be confused with the stories Disney would produce with Marvel a few years later

Foreign Comics (search the net Ariel dancing with another guy, protecting fish from fishermen "swimming with Pinnochio .talking from land to her father in the sea ala clamshell viewer)

Disney Press books assorted tales 12 books in a series that put more exposure on Ariel's sisters
Aquata there is oldest and the third film shattered that

And other stories over the years

That's at least half a dozen different realities

And I did not hate the film though it could have been better or it could have been WORSE

[–] otness_e 10 years ago

I agree the third film definitely could not have entered continuity at all, but I'd have to argue with Return to the Sea, as there are some elements that can allow for some wiggle room.

And the Marvel Comics could count as TV episodes as well, and in fact used elements from the TV series.

I actually prefer to think of the TLM stuff, exempting Ariel's Beginning, as being akin to the Star Wars Expanded Universe anyways (well, before it became "Legends" anyways thanks to Disney).

[–] Andthatismytwocents 10 years ago

Disney by itself printed their own comics in 1990 to 1994

the Moray was in those along with the submarine with the nameless scientist

[–] otness_e 10 years ago

Yeah. That too (though I'm pretty sure the Serpent-Teen two-parter and the two other issues were before 1994, probably made shortly after the movie, meaning 1990).

[–] Andthatismytwocents 10 years ago

It was Dec 1991 the first issue came out

Oversea comics have stuff that was not printed in the states maybe Canada

Eventually the Disney Adventures mag printed the comic characters till its cancelation

[–] Andthatismytwocents 10 years ago

Actually Mulan (1998)the love story of the "perfect man" was secondary and about Family

Frozen shows a sibling relation ship, the only Disney princess with siblings (from at least one parent that was the same bloodline) Ariel this is ignored even the TV show was half assed with the relationships though Susan Rutan of LA Law voiced Andrina briefly in the read alongs. The other film is Brave though it's little brothers

And that the sisterly bond (spoiler) is the true love the film was talking about NOT the kiss of a guy worthy or not of the girl AND NOT A PLOT DEVICE for the story which MANY Disney guys fall into.

Jasmine is the female equivelant along with Meg and Kida hence why Frozen deserves some of it's praise

[–] watcher101 9 years ago

TLM2 was far from perfect, but it was a cute enjoyable sequel. I loved Melody's character, and ratings state that even though a lot of people didn't care for the sequel, many loved her. I also thought Tip and Dash were a hoot too.

[–] otness_e 9 years ago

I thought Melody was well handled for a cheapquel character. And while I won't go so far as to say it was enjoyable at all, it was certainly decent compared to Ariel's Beginning, which basically divorced itself from the film it was supposed to act as a prequel to for no real reason at all.

And yeah, Melody's quite popular. In a way, she's to us Americans, what Tina Branford/Terra Branford was to the Japanese. In case anyone's wondering about the comparison, Terra Branford, who was named Tina Branford in Japan, was one of the main characters for the game Final Fantasy VI. That game, while certainly very popular in the West, rivaled only by Final Fantasy VII, wasn't exactly all well-received in its home country due to the dark nature of the game. In fact, Kefka Palazzo, the main villain of that game, basically was on polar opposite spectrums of popularity on the sides of the Pacific (in America, he was basically heralded as the Joker of Final Fantasy and had popularity rivaling Sephiroth, while in Japan, let's just say he was just as well received as Jar-Jar Binks was for the Star Wars fandom or how Scrappy Doo was received by Scooby fans, ie, not popular at all). Terra Branford was probably one of the few elements in the game who actually was well received on both sides of the Pacific, hence the comparison.

And either way, this was definitely one of the better copy/paste plot films I've seen even though I don't exactly have much fondness of the film, and I've seen worse films with copy/paste elements, like the recent Star Wars film The Force Awakens (I won't go into too much depth due to it incorporating massive spoilers for the film, but let's just say that they rehashed most of the first Star Wars film with bits from Episodes V and VI and somehow still managed to beep it up royally in terms of plot due to extremely bad writing in it, with many of the characters being poorly handled. Rey and Finn were probably an exception, although even they weren't exactly all THAT written well, with the worst having to go to Kylo Ren, who made even Morgana's characterization seem reasonable, heck, Anakin Skywalker in the Prequel Trilogy as well [yeah, he was a whiner in the Prequel Trilogy, but at least the stuff he complained about he had actual gripes about, while Kylo Ren didn't.]. And at least Morgana DID hate Ursula and partially was motivated to one-up her and gain some respect from her mom due to being neglected, Kylo Ren... let's put it this way, his even BEING a fanboy of his grandpa, Darth Vader conflicted with several of his actions, namely his wanting to stay in the Dark Side by offing his own dad, when Vader if anything gave it up to save Luke. If anything, someone who is a fan of Vader would be inspired to stay on the Light Side of the Force, not the Dark Side due to Vader's sacrifice.).

[–] KristenStewartForever 9 years ago

It's one of the greatest Disney sequels ever. I love it. Ariel as a mother is wonderful

[–] X-Hal 9 years ago

The storyline's not recycled, it's reversed. That means it IS recycled, and derivative, and stupid.

This movie is awful and painful, and also they drew the grown-ups all weird and smashed with disproportionately short limbs, so most of them look like dwarfs in most scenes, so the art's crap too. XP

- - -

Whether they find life there or not, I think Jupiter should be considered an enemy planet.

[–] otness_e 9 years ago

If it's of any consolation, at least this film tried to keep to continuity, unlike with Ariel's Beginning where it seemed to go out of its way to conflict with the original tale.

TLM2 had its flaws, but I'd argue that Ariel's Beginning was even MORE derivative and stupid.

EDIT: Besides, the Special Edition for TLM2 fixed most of its animation and to some extent storyline problems anyhow.