Rory said this to Asher's granddaughter in the hospital. I found that scene to be awful. Yes he dates younger girls, etc. BUT Rory wasn't dating him so why the hell did she feel the need to say that to a girl she doesn't even know? Found it to be very cocky and ridiculous. When she found out it was his granddaughter, she was embarrassed. No apology. She is such a snob.
shareRory has these moments pretty often and all of her scenes with Asher made me cringe. For example telling him that the red head has fat thighs or accusing him of giving her an A because Paris is dating him. Rory makes some pretty dumb assumptions for a "smart" woman.
"When life gives you lemons"
Jessica D: sleep with their fathers and have secret lemon children
Yeah, Rory and Lorelai are not such great feminists. There are a LOT of moments through the series, from both of them, that make me question their values, let alone their manners and social graces.
I get that Rory's snarkiness to the granddaughter, and the redhead, were supposed to be based in her loyalty to Paris -- but she still came off as rude and frankly pretty gross. So what if the redhead has fat thighs? That makes her invalid as someone whose company a man might enjoy? Yikes.
*Formerly Nothin_but_the_Rain*
Lorelai and Rory are more of the 'I'm better than other women because I make obscure pop culture references" type of feminists. They've both put women down for not having the "right" mindset or values that they do ignoring that background plays a huge role in development. For example, they shamed Shane for hooking up with Jess because you know how dare a woman do anything sexual or even Bobbi in season 7. Being threatened by another woman is natural but the nastiness directed at them was uncalled for and Rory has a lot of nerve criticizing anyone when she sleeps with taken men.
"When life gives you lemons"
Jessica D: sleep with their fathers and have secret lemon children
I really think Rory only had a sweet personality in season one. After that, she got more critical and judgmental each year. And we never, to my recollection, saw her apologize for any unkind comment or deed.
shareI think for more major things Rory did apologize. But yes there were times were she didn't. For instance in Die Jerk she doesn't apologize to the ballerina she offends from her bad review, she just defends herself as a journalist who was doing her job. Which is fine but when confronted she could of apologized for hurting her feelings. She felt awful about it later, but never tried to tell the girl. Rory would feel bad about things but never would try to apologize or say I am sorry in these type of instances. With the whole Lucy/Marty debacle in season 7. She did apologize. Of course Rory was allowed to grow a lot in season 7 with the new writers. She did also apologize to Dean after he broke up with her in season 3. Also she apologized to Lorelai when she came home after their seperation. She did apologize to Paris as well about taking over as editor in her place at the paper.
shareShe does apologize to Lorelai after in the famous 6.09 episode. She apologizes to Dean after her freakout in 2.02 Hammers and Veils. She apologizes to Paris a thousand times after she smashed her history project.
----------
Still shopoholic, just wearing a new T-shirt
If she had experienced any true regret for the way she treated people, she would have made an effort to change. Rory climbing a tree to Dean's window to apologize was about her wanting Dean to still like her even though she dumped him for Jess, and Dean knew this. Fast forward to the bratty college kid who tried to bully another student from sitting under "her" study tree. Rory got worse, not better in the way she treated people, so her few apologies didn't amount to much.
shareIt's really hard to watch that scene because Rory is so desperate for everyone to love her but she doesn't think she needs to improve or change any behavior to earn that love or admiration. She just feels entitled to this praise. I truly wish that was Dean's last appearance on the show so he could've left with some dignity intact.
"When life gives you lemons"
Jessica D: sleep with their fathers and have secret lemon children
Oh I agree. Dean had one of the best lines ever -- something along the lines of telling her that "oh well, somebody doesn't like you, Rory--deal with it." That would have been the best exit line a character ever had on GG. Meanwhile, she left Jess on the street after agreeing to meet with him in order to climb a tree to see Dean. Wonder what Jess would have thought about that if he had known.
shareYeah I've always wondered that too and I truly don't believe Rory would ever be happy with Jess, Dean, or anyone similar because she wants what she can't have in life. Their entire relationship in season 3, Rory complained about Jess not being Dean and the whole time she was with Dean, she wanted him to be Jess. Logan was truly her best match because he gave her the romance and stability she got from Dean but he also challenged her enough and could discuss her books and writing that she got with Jess with the added bonus that he understands her family obligations.
"When life gives you lemons"
Jessica D: sleep with their fathers and have secret lemon children
^Well said!!
shareThey've both put women down for not having the "right" mindset or values that they do
People on this board are so judgemental regarding every little thing the characters do, I don't understand it. Rory and Lorelai both have been having awkward and badly handled moments since forever, and it's clear that the characters on this show are not supposed to be perfect.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If I upset you, don't stress
Never forget, that God isn't finished with me yet
People on this board are so judgemental regarding every little thing the characters do, I don't understand it. Rory and Lorelai both have been having awkward and badly handled moments since forever, and it's clear that the characters on this show are not supposed to be perfect.
I enjoy discussing the show with everyone on the board mostly because I didn't get a chance to during the show's original run. I do disagree partly because ASP has everyone respond to Rory on the show as if she's perfect so that's where out of my criticism comes from with her. Lorelai and Emily etc definitely aren't seen as perfect but it's still fun to discuss their personalities.
"When life gives you lemons"
Jessica D: sleep with their fathers and have secret lemon children
I get your point, but I don't find it hard to believe that the other characters would see Rory as very special and nearly 'perfect', even if she's not. She has these attributes (the cuteness, wittiness etc) that enamoures people with her. I never got the feeling that she's actually supposed to be perfect.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If I upset you, don't stress
Never forget, that God isn't finished with me yet
I could get how people who don't know her well would think that but I find her one sided relationships very annoying. Pretty much everyone on the show and again in the revival praise her constantly and she puts zero effort into her relationships with other people while judging everyone else for how they handle their relationships. Lorelai has Emily and Sookie, occasionally Luke when the writers understand his character to bring her into reality but Rory manages to escape criticism on things she should be taken to task for imo. For example my best friends would not cheer me on for having an affair with a married man. I just think ASP was more realistic with the other characters and how people responded to them. I think Paris is an entertaining gem to watch. Could I deal with her in real life? Definitely not and other characters reacted to her in a way that makes sense.
"When life gives you lemons"
Jessica D: sleep with their fathers and have secret lemon children
but Rory manages to escape criticism on things she should be taken to task for imo.Sometimes maybe, but not in general. When Rory sleeps with Dean she gets a hard time from Lorelai, also when she quits Yale. Jess always calls her out on any BS (not breaking up with Dean even though she has feelings for someone else for example). Marty is annoyed at her because in her naivete she doesn't get that he's in love with her. And Lucy (was that her name?) quits their friendship when Rory goes along with Marty's lies. That's some things that immediately come to my mind, but I'm sure there's much more.
Lorelai tells her off then which I enjoyed but she also gets to escape from her problems by running off to Europe. The big missed opportunity there is everyone in the town flipped their lids when Lorelai and Luke broke up and turned against Dean when he broke up with Rory YET when Rory sleeps with Dean and he's married no one finds out at all. They gossip endlessly and no one even blinks at Rory dating Dean right after he splits from Lindsay. Her reputation wasn't affected at all same with the yacht stealing and graduating on time. Where were the consequences? Lorelai can't escape getting pregnant at 16 from her parents, other SH moms when she messed up, and even herself but Rory doesn't feel guilty for longer than a minute. I also don't think Marty would still be obsessing over any other woman after a small crush except for Rory because Gilmore women are so magical. And Lucy never would've forgive her IMO. I think most of those examples were the writers missing the mark on a longer arc.
"When life gives you lemons"
Jessica D: sleep with their fathers and have secret lemon children
Of course Gilmore girls are magical, otherwise we wouldn't have a show about them.. :-)
I'm not here to change your opinion of Rory, but I disagree. After the thing with the yacht she had to do all those hours of collecting trash (after verbally getting stick from the judge), that is a consequence. And after sleeping with Dean she got the anger from Lindsay's mother when they met on the street, and Dean was angry at her as well. I respect your impression, but these are facts, she has had to deal with consequences and people are not always only nice and forgiving. Maybe it's too little for you, then fair enough.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If I upset you, don't stress
Never forget, that God isn't finished with me yet
Rory whined to death about those 300 hours of community sevice, which she could have completed in less than two months if she had worked 40 hours a week. She wasn't in school, and didn't have to work a real job yet because she was given free room and board by her grandparents. She never had to struggle with anything. People always accommodated her bad behavior, and there was always a grandparent ready to write a check for her when needed. The few times Lorelai and her grandparents confronted her on her behavior, Rory always
responded by getting angry and running away. Everyone was always protecting Rory. Lindsey's mom yelled at Rory for 30 seconds, and then Lorelai jumped in to defend her. As always.
Lindsay's mom and that judge kind of served the same purpose. They turned Rory into the victim, even though she legitimately did something bad. Poor Rory.
The town didn't talk, it wasn't Lindsay to tell her off, Dean let her back in, I never felt she was truly remorseful; and then she hopped into bed with the next guy she met. Nothing Rory did endeared her to me in S5. I stopped caring about her in S6 as a coping mechanism.
So yeah, it was too little for me. And to top it off, she didn't learn anything, this is just who she is. But doing crappy things doesn't make a person crappy, according to ASP. She probably doesn't intend for the characters to be perfect; but she also doesn't have a firm grasp on how unlikable she makes them, in the name of what she considers good storytelling.
Good points! Every time Rory did something wrong, and someone called her out on it or there was some kind of consequence, she was made the victim. Poor Rory, she was given community service. Poor Rory, her grandparents didn't want her having sex with Logan in their house-- so time to run away without even leaving a note. Poor Rory, how unfair that her mom didn't approve of her having an affair with a married man. Poor Rory, she fractured her wrist because she gave the keys to her car to
Jess instead of tutoring him like she was supposed to, and he got into a car accident. Poor Rory when anyone got angry at her, for any reason, because then she became the victim. I find her to be an extremely unsympathetic character, at least from the second season on.
I thinks it's funny too because as you said we were supposed to have sympathy for Rory in those instances but I never did. Atleast not a lot. She deserved community service because she broke the law. Her grandparents had the right to tell her what she couldn't do under their roof not paying rent. And Lorelai should of told her off for the whole thing with Dean. I always felt Jess and Rory were equally responsible for the car accident. Neither one of them deserved full blame. It was ridiculous that no one thought Rory had anything to do with it. But in those instances I felt like Rory got what she had coming to her. Same with dropping out of Yale she deserved to have Lorelai not want to know her for a few months. I think there were times in those types of incidents where they had major fights that you were supposed to have sympathy for both of them but I always felt it for Lorelai. Not for Rory.
shareI always found it interesting that no one calls Rory out for allowing Jess to drive the car that Dean built for her. I know they got into an accident so that shifted the focus but it's really disrespectful of her given the pure antagonism between Dean and Jess. Then she runs off to New York to see Jess and misses her mom's graduation yet Lorelai doesn't even bother yelling at her because Rory yells at herself. Guess that makes everything A okay. I wish Dean would've found out about her skipping school to see Jess so he would've dumped her then.
"When life gives you lemons"
Jessica D: sleep with their fathers and have secret lemon children
That missing graduation was one of two occasions that I really wished Lorelai would take a more serious and stern approach with Rory. Sure, Rory was clearly sorry and regretted doing that, and clearly, it was not the worst possible thing, but she still made a huge mistake, knowingly. She cut school, did not tell anyone where she was going, went to a city she didn't know, she had no way of communicating with home not until she actually got home, she missed her mother's graduation the one she suggested Lorelai do, and for what? To see a boy that's not even her boyfriend.
No matter how sorry she is, she broke a lot of rules and should have broken Lorelai's trust. That was a red flag: Rory was not ready for relationships. She's a teenager, a stupid, impulsive, high on hormones teenager!
Can you imagine anyone ever getting away with doing this? My parents were lenient, I'm talking no curfew ever, even I'd have gotten into trouble for doing all of that in one evening. What does Lorelai do? LOL, takes Rory to dinner! And then the next episode, it's like nothing happened.
The other incident was in season 1 episode 20, I think, when Rory finds out Lorelai and Max have been talking (after her break up with Dean) and runs away to Richard and Emily's without telling anyone.
EDIT : I must say though, she did seem really sorry about missing the graduation. And it's ok to do stupid stuff every once in a while. She definitely should have gotten in trouble for it. Maybe nothing as ridiculous as having no books, no music, no TV, no phone... but something.
I think my parents would've murdered me honestly. I was pretty shocked that Chilton didn't call Lorelai once Rory didn't show up but I agree that Lorelai really missed the mark that time. Anything could've happened to Rory and she would have no idea where she was or when she left. Luckily this show was more comedy than drama or it would've been one of those lesson episodes.
"When life gives you lemons"
Jessica D: sleep with their fathers and have secret lemon children
What happens after that is completely awful: Nothing. Nothing happens to Rory. Lyndsey's mom rightfully snaps at her for 40 seconds, and that's the end of it. Then Dean is running to her arms, and they're happy and dating again. Then she does the thing she always does: Leave Dean for a more interesting guy. Again, no consequences. He's an angel, he understands. They're from different worlds, and it's starting to really show.
Rory really does belong to the Emily world of rich and privilege.
Again, when Rory gets arrested, all Lorelai does is... make jokes. seriously. Does it not bother her at all that her daughter can't even handle a man telling her she's not good enough? I don't recall hearing Lorelai asking Rory if everything in her life was ok, and why she did what she did. Also, whenever Lorelai asks Rory what's going on and she says "I don't wanna talk about it" she's fine with it, and leaves it be. No, make her talk.
I know Rory was 21ish when the boat thing happened, but she's still Lorelai's kid. Obviously, she's messing up and needs help. I understood Lorelai's choice to let Rory realize she was making a mistake. It showed that Lorelai truly trusted her and had faith, but I wanted more from her. Things turned out fine, thankfully, but the events leading up to the big fight in season 6 could have been avoided if Lorelai had just done what a parent's supposed to do.
I also hated seeing them apart for so long.
In Lorelai's defense I think Rory did seem like she was very sorry and embarrassed over stealing the yacht atleast initially. She even says "Oh my god, I stole a yacht?!?!?! I spent a night in jail?!?!" If she had said to her mom that it was no big deal then I think Lorelai would of freaked out way more. Lorelai always seemed to gage her reactions to Rory's mistakes based on how Rory responded to them. So she decided to be more supportive and nice about it. Her making jokes I think was just her and who she was as a mom who was only 16 years older and having a mom that wasn't the same way. I think she thought okay this is bad but we can live through this, she is a young adult that made a mistake. Once Rory reveals she's dropping out of Yale Lorelai gets way tougher and makes Rory talk. She also tells her that she shouldn't let one man's opinion change her whole future. I think either way Lorelai would of stepped up as a mom on this one sure she could of acted sooner. But I think Rory played her on this one. She acts like she understands that she had done something wrong but then once she decides she is leaving Yale all of a sudden she sees herself as a victim. Sure she was upset over what Michtum said but at some point she had to rise above it.
shareBy making herself into a self-deprecating, remorseful victim, Rory sure managed to manipulate her mother and others on many occasions. By agreeing to punish herself in a dozen different ridiculous ways none of which she followed through with I am sure), Rory managed to escape any real punishment for running off to NYC and missing her mother's
graduation. Same thing with stealing the yacht and leaving Yale. She turnred on the tears for her Grandpa, and all consequences for her behavior went out the window. And Richard made it far worse by being outraged that she was given community service. I loved it when Emily later told Rory that she never realized before how spoiled Rory was. Rory was great at manipulating her family, which is why she was never punished growing up as a child, and turned out to be a spoiled brat as an
adult.
Totally agree Rory manipulated people to get her way a lot. I think the yacht Yale situation is the most notable. It drives me crazy when Richard gives into her and changes his attitude towards the situation just because Rory cries. He should of sat her down and talked some sense into her. He was supposed to be the voice of reason in the family for goodness sake.
shareI would've preferred if Richard saw through her crying and went ahead with the plan with Lorelai and Emily. This way the older Gilmores would've gotten closer over bonding that Rory shut them out over the Yale issue, Rory would've gotten a job or at least figured things out on her own without depending on them, and we could've seen some real growth from everyone. Lorelai and Emily would go to therapy together because Lorelai would realize that her relationship with Rory was codependent and stopping her from moving forward with Luke while Emily sees that the struggle they have with Rory is too reminiscent of her problems with Lorelai in the past and Rory has time to independently think of her mistakes and fix them on her own. I know people love Jess coming to knock some sense into Rory but I would've preferred if she made the final steps on her own because it becomes a troubling pattern for her later on in life and then of course the revival.
"When life gives you lemons"
Jessica D: sleep with their fathers and have secret lemon children
I would have preferred if Logan had been the one to have had that conversation with Rory, not Jess. He could have said "You know I'm completely supportive of you, but I'm concerned about how you've let my father's opinions get you off track from doing what you love to do." I know ASP loved Milo, but I don't buy that whole conversation between Rory and Jess, with him telling her he knew her better than anyone. Baloney. At that point, Logang knew her much better.
shareI didn't like the fact that it was Jess, since that was, out of nowhere and I hate him. But hearing that come from Logan? Somehow it's worse, because, he's the poster child for doing whatever people say to keep them happy. He moved to London just because his dad wanted him to! What 25 year old is willing to do that?
shareLogan certainly was a people pleaser. However, during the course of his 3 year relationship with Rory, he matured quite a bit. I would say he had better communication skills with Rory then Luke ever had with Lorelai. I could have seen him having had an honest conversation with Rory at that point because he knew she wasn't happy. The novelty of not being in school had worn off. And I think that at that point, that conversation should have happened between Rory and Logan, not Jess and Rory.
shareYeah but he said he knew she loved school and would go back. He also knew what is like to have a lot of expectation from family and pressure. I think Logan figured Rory would come to her senses and go back to school, he never thought she wouldn't be returning and it was a break. I agree he knew her better than Jess. If Logan had told her to go back that would of been fine by me. It also would of been nice if Rory herself realized what she needed to do because she had an experience that made her realize how good she had it. When Rory starts to complain and yell at him at the bar he tells her that he isn't standing in her way and she should do what she wants. He encouraged her to own her choices and do what's best for herself going forward.
shareYeah it didn't make sense but ASP is convinced that Jess knows her more than anyone when he really doesn't at all. The relationship she had with Logan was much deeper and more mature. Jess and Rory had an instant attraction but that doesn't mean that he knows her the best.
"When life gives you lemons"
Jessica D: sleep with their fathers and have secret lemon children
This would have been way too perfect. Family is complicated. I think everyone's actions was sort of in tune with their characters. Richard and Emily always favored Rory more than Lorelai, so at the first sight of seeing Rory run to them for help, of course they would choose to help her instead of Lorelai. It's a constant of their relationship, and it's sad. It's also a great part of why Rory as an adult is so immature. It's this safety net that she soon figured out she had, no matter what.
shareSo you're saying if someone steals/cheats/lies and then says "oh, I can't believe I just did that. I'm sorry!" That just takes care of it?
Rory was 20 when the yacht thing happened. So technically Lorelai had no real power to punish her for it. I'm not saying she should have kicked Rory when she was down. All I'm saying is that she should have scolded Rory for it, at least express how unbelievably disappointed she is. She said all of that TO LUKE! Why not say those exact words to your daughter? She needs to hear that, instead of "we'll take care of it. No matter what you do, we will always clean up your mess!"
Rory's reason for doing such a thing was ridiculous and immature. If you act like a child, you deserve to be treated like a child. My best-friend wrecked her car in an accident while driving herself three block home drunk out of her mind, just because she didn't want her car to be left at someone else's house. This happened a few months ago, she's 22, and her parents actually SOLD the car, and are only giving her the money back when she works around the house for them.
That's harsh, and a lot of people might think unnecessary. A 22 year old should know better, and she's certainly not a child. But this is a slap on the hand compared to getting someone badly hurt or damaging property and having to do time or community service. Same goes for Rory. I know the incident got totally wiped out, but it's still really embarrassing and shouldn't have happened. I'm surprised Rory didn't kick her own butt for it, though.
I agree that more should or could of been done on Lorelai's part. I think she thought Rory was beating herself up enough that she didn't need to clobber her atleast not right away. This wasn't something that was typical for them, picking her up from jail.
But obviously she wasn't tough enough because Rory ends up manipulating her later as I said. Rory was going to receive consequences for stealing the yacht from the state. I think Lorelai as I said would gage her reaction to Rory's mistakes based on how Rory responded to her behavior. Rory wasn't acting at the time like what she did was okay. Where as when she messed up with Dean she acted like she wasn't the bad guy in the scenario and that made Lorelai really pull out her mom card and say hey kid that was terrible and let me tell you why. I'm not saying that is how to parent. Obviously Amy always made them unconventional given the fact that there was only a 16 year age difference between them. Sometimes that wasn't to their benefit. Lorelai would sometimes treat Rory like a friend and not her daughter and that affected her judgment in these scenarios even when Rory was an adult. She told Emily in the spa episode "Rory and I are best friends first and mother and daughter second." Sometimes that made everything great othertimes that made their relationship complicated.
Lindsay's mom and that judge kind of served the same purpose. They turned Rory into the victim, even though she legitimately did something bad. Poor Rory.
That's like a robber who sues the people whose house he's robbing when gets hurt in their house.
Mrs. Lister and the judge distract from her very real transgressions. The writers try to spin things so someone else is the villain, when Rory was the one who did the bad deed. They were minor consequences, and in the case of the affair, not what I considered realistic in their tiny gossipy town. Beyond the run in with the Listers, Rory was only uncomfortable when imagining what mean names people might call her (like when Lorelai and Lane complained about 'sluts' and 'trollops' flirting with their men). She was sorry for herself, not sorry for hurting Lindsay, like she should have been.
never is it being said that she's flawless and not to blame for the things she did.
Yes even a good chunk of the fans still blame Logan for Rory's behavior in seasons 5 and 6. Lorelai and Rory blamed Logan for her dropping out of school and of course not talking to Lorelai. They just couldn't accept that Rory chose to do those things because she wanted to do them. The writers were obsessed with making Rory the good guy even when she's completely wrong and I never find that entertaining to watch. Lorelai was way too relaxed over the arrest. What if Rory had actually gotten jail time?
"When life gives you lemons"
Jessica D: sleep with their fathers and have secret lemon children
I get a totally different impression from watching the show, so have to disagree. Let's just leave it at that, we'd only go in circles from here. ;-)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If I upset you, don't stress
Never forget, that God isn't finished with me yet
Out of curiosity, Private, what exactly are you disagreeing with? It seems we're pretty much all on the same page here
shareOut of curiosity, Private, what exactly are you disagreeing with? It seems we're pretty much all on the same page here
With the judge, I wasn't being specific enough. She cites other privileged kids who use the world as their playground as her reason for upping the community service hours. Which immediately brings Logan & Co to mind, who characters/some viewers were already blaming, to the extent that they wonder why Rory didn't get mad at Logan for her sentence. Some say it was unfair to make Rory an example.
So rather than just punishing Rory like she absolutely deserved, the added dialogue distracts away from her and upsets people that Rory has to suffer because of those other rich kids, when she just did that ONE LITTLE THING. Uh! Not Fair!! Rory isn't bad! It's those other kids! Why don't they get punished? They're the ones who deserve it. As though Rory now doesn't.
Who cares about them? Rory did something stupid, so she's paying for it. As she should.
True. Also, Lorelai, Luke abd everyone else under the sunn blames Logan for Rory's legal troubles, when she in fact was the one who convinced Logan to take the yacht. It was never his idea. Logan was only guilty of wanting to do anything to please Rory, especially since she was crying and upset. Don't you know that Rory is irresistible when she's crying? The truth is that Logan did not deserve to get the same punishment as Rory because she was someone who wanted to joyride the yacht because her little ego was bruised by Mitchum. It just goes to show how spoiled and narcissistic she was by this point. 99% of 20 year olds would have gotten drunk with their boyfriend and ate a ton of junk food and had sex if they were in her situation, but the little princess had to take a yacht.
shareOther than Lorelai's discussion with Logan at the Inn when she tells him all kinds of things have gone wrong in Rory's life since she met Logan, which I would like to think was indirect blame, when do Rory/Lorelai or anyone else like Luke blame Logan for Rory stealing the yacht, dropping out etc? I know Emily, Richard, and Lorelai at different times say that because she was crushed by Mitchum that caused Rory to not think clearly, be upset and take the boat which obviously was a dumb conscious decision that has no excuse. Sure if Mitchum had not criticized Rory she probably wouldn't have stolen the boat, but at the same time Rory should of been able to keep it together enough to not even be tempted to do anything illegal. But I don't know how anyone could blame Logan for Rory's mistakes, even indirectly. I guess Lorelai felt his influence was bad but she wanted to steal the yacht. Granted Logan should of said no himself but Rory made the decisions at her own will. They were in it together and then she decided to leave school and be apart from Lorelai for a while on her own.
shareLuke hated Logan in the Vineyard Valentine episode and I assume it was leftover from the yacht/dropping out of Yale incident and also of course that Luke only liked Rory with Jess. I think Lorelai was very concerned about Rory once she slept with Dean in the season 4 finale and then when things finally thaw between them, she finds Rory crying on the bathroom floor over Logan only to brush it off the next day. Basically most parents are lucky enough to not see their daughters in that position even though it happens to a good chunk of us in college and it seemed like Lorelai wanted to believe everything was Logan's fault so she could still have that image of high school Rory in her mind. There are quite a few fans who really blame Logan for Rory's behavior and I think they have an idea of who Rory is and the reality of the character differs from that so it's easier to just blame Logan because he popped into her life when she was already making poor decisions. Rory would've definitely stolen the yacht even if Logan said no because she just wanted to do it and she has a history of making bad decisions when she's upset. I also get annoyed when people blame Logan for Rory dropping out of school because their relationship was VERY new and he probably didn't want to rock the boat too much. He gave her support because he knew she needed to do that for herself and wasn't ready to go back yet so there was no reason or point to push her repeatedly into going back. We saw what happened when Lorelai did it and she needed someone to support her outside of her family. She wasn't seeing Lane regularly and she wasn't living with Paris anymore so Logan was the only person she really had in her life at that point.
"When life gives you lemons"
Jessica D: sleep with their fathers and have secret lemon children
Yeah I dislike it as well when fans or the characters put blame on Logan for Rory's mistakes and for also acting like Logan was a contributing factor to her taking all that time off. I think Logan always knew Rory would go back when she was ready. He didn't want to pressure her. Rory made her own choices. As Logan said in the revival she never needed rescuing. Rory could do what she wanted with or without Logan by her side.
shareThe fact that Logan did not force Rory to do anything, even when that meant not dropping out and going back to her mom; is what I love most about him.
shareI recall Lorelai blaming Logan while she and Rory were driving home after Rory got fingerprinted. I also remember Luke putting the blame on Logan. I will have to re-watch the scenes to remember exactly what was said.
shareYes, but that was understandable. Here's a girl who's never done something illegal or extremely dangerous as stealing a yacht and spending the night in jail. She's 20 year old, and has had a great track record until then, except the few mishaps here and there (like the Dean thing). So you have to understand where Lorelai was coming from thinking it was Logan's fault.
He had a reputation, his friends were there and they didn't help any matters, he is a rich kid that's not worried about his life, and most importantly, he seems to have a hold on Rory (The dinner at his house and Rory calling Lorelai after it, Rory getting drunk and crying over the fact that he hasn't called her, etc). So makes sense that the mother of the girl who's never gotten in trouble with authority thinks it's the guy's fault.
Lorelai had no evidence proving her wrong, not until Rory told her it was her idea.
Lorelai and the town always blamed Rory's boyfriends for Rory's mistakes. When Rory and Dean first broke up, everyone hated Dean (Luke even assaulted him). Dean definitely shared some of the blame, but no one knew it was because he told Rory he loved her and she couldn't respond back. Dean was constantly told by her grandparents and Luke that he wasn't good enough for Rory. Then Jess got blamed for the car accident, and the town ran him out of SH for it. Never mind that he swerved to avoid hitting a dog, and that Rory gave him her car keys. So everyone blaming Logan for Rory's woes is just part of the pattern, and part of the Rory worship that turned her into a brat.
shareI agree, and I hated how they treated Rory like she could do no wrong as well. Just, that particular incident, when Loreali jumped to the conclusion that it was Logan's fault Rory was arrested, I understood where she was coming from. All the other times, I seriously wanted everyone to open their eyes and stop treating Rory like she was going to break if they yelled at her.
shareYeah Rory would've been better off at least in one area of her life if they just accepted that she wasn't perfect and criticized her when necessary. They don't have to burn her at the stake but more moments of just acknowledging her faults would go a long way.
"When life gives you lemons"
Jessica D: sleep with their fathers and have secret lemon children
Here it is.
In the car: LORELAI: Rory, what happened?
[Rory's cell phone rings. She takes it out.]
LORELAI: No, don't answer it.
RORY: It's Logan.
LORELAI: Rory, don't answer it.
RORY: I have to.
LORELAI: Well, I don't want you talking to him right now.
RORY: Why not?
LORELAI: Why not? He just got you arrested.
RORY: He did not.
LORELAI: Don't protect him.
RORY: It was my idea!
LORELAI: Oh, come on.
And then in the diner:
LUKE [turns around]: What? What do you mean, Rory stole a yacht?
[They sit down.]
LORELAI: I, uh, just got back from picking Rory up from the Bridgeport police department where she was brought following her arrest for grand theft boating.
LUKE: Tell me what happened.
LORELAI: I don’t know what happened. I haven’t gotten the details yet. I did get a piece of paper with a court date on it, though. June third. Sounds like a good day to go to court, don’t you think?
LUKE: Was she with that Logan kid?
LORELAI: Yes, he was arrested too.
LUKE: Well, there you go. He got her into this.
LORELAI: That’s what I said. I need hand soap.
And that was that. No question. It was Logan. He got her into trouble. Get soap. Get a lawyer. Make it go away.
Later when Logan calls:
LORELAI: Hey, you know what? I think your father has done just about enough here, okay?
LOGAN: Done enough?
LORELAI: Yes. So, thank your father for this. And I do mean all of this. But I think I can handle it from here.
And finally, when Lorelai goes to her parents:
RICHARD: I don’t understand this. Rory’s doing beautifully at school. Why would she want to leave?
LORELAI: Okay, look. I know you love Logan and the Huntzbergers, and you already have the wedding invitations printed and ready to go, but I have to tell you these are not good people.
RICHARD: Meaning what?
LORELAI: Logan’s mother and grandfather attacked Rory at that dinner they invited her to. They told her she wasn’t good enough to marry into the Huntzberger family, and she wasn’t who they wanted for Logan.
EMILY: Not good enough?
LORELAI: Then Mitchum Huntzberger gave Rory that internship, theoretically to make up for that evening. He let her work for a while, he built her up, and then he clobbered her. He told her she doesn’t have what it takes to be a journalist, and she needs to find something else to do with her life.
RICHARD [shocked]: What?
LORELAI: This happened on Friday night, Mom, that’s why Rory wasn’t at dinner. She was devastated. Then she went to find Logan at the yacht club, and the two of them stole a yacht!
RICHARD: No, stop it! Stop it, right now!
LORELAI: They were arrested and I had to pick Rory up from the Bridgeport police department.
EMILY: Oh, no.
LORELAI: Ever since she got involved with these people, things have been bad. She’s up and she’s down and she should be stronger than this, I know, but she’s young and she’s Rory and she’s come so far, she’s worked so hard. I just don’t want her to lose this.
[Emily and Richard look at each other.]
RICHARD [pulls a notebook out of his pocket]: What do you want us to do?
Every time, with every person who knows, it is Logan and the Huntzberger's fault that Rory is doing these things.
In theory it's true because if Rory hadn't ever met Logan none of that would of happened to Rory. But that's also a ridiculous story because regardless Rory could still control her behavior and make conscious choices. She could of not let Mitchum's comments affect her that much.
shareNo need to explain, I get it. I'm just saying that I perceive these scenes differently. The situation with the judge highlights imo that Rory is starting to act exactly like the privileged spoiled kids that the judge is referring to, so the sentence feels just.
You are assuming the viewer is supposed to feel a certain way here that you don't agree with, but it's based on your own interpretation, and it's just that, an interpretation. Mine is different, that's all. There's a german saying: 'Show me your friends and I tell you who you are'. That's what's happening with Rory here imo.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If I upset you, don't stress
Never forget, that God isn't finished with me yet
You are assuming the viewer is supposed to feel a certain way here that you don't agree with, but it's based on your own interpretation,
You bring up a really valid point here: They always tried to make us feel for Rory by having other people treating her badly or an outside force making things hard for her. What would have redeemed her character was a sincere apology or something, anything, showing remorse. Nope. Even after the season 6 fight, when Rory apologize saying "I'm sorry, I was so stupid" Lorelai responds with, "You're sorry? I'm sorry!" No, Lorelai, she should be sorry. Let her be sorry!
This reminded me of Awkward. (MTV): On the show, Jenna got involved with a bad crowd her senior year, and drove away her best friends and boyfriend to be with this new "bad boy" type guy. She was arrested for smoking pot in her car, skipped school, missed curfew, sneaked out when she got grounded,called her mom a loser with no life, ruined her teacher's reputation just because she was concerned about Jenna, got suspended from school, went to a sketchy party where she was offered Molly and to join a threesome, and only then she freaked out.
They basically had Jenna do a full 180 and go from the nerdy girl who got great grades and never got into trouble to being the girl I described above. I remember thinking they absolutely butchered her character, and there was no possible way for her to redeem herself. Except, after she stopped seeing the guy and accepted her punishment(s) she spent two-three episodes trying to avoid people, but ultimately realizing how much she hurt everyone, and started to make up for it. One of the best moments is the moment, about a week after the party incident, when she goes to her mom and starts crying and apologizing hysterically.
It really did a lot of good IMO. I was impressed with Jenna for doing that. Her apology looked and sounded sincere, she actually spent the rest of the season trying to make up for everything.
The season 1 and 2 Rory probably would have done the same, but the adult Rory, for some reason...
You observe others to feel a certain way (indignation), so you conclude people are supposed to feel this way? How is that a fact? So tell me when I feel a different way watching the same scene, and you feel different watching the scene (we both feel Rory deserves the punishment), what do you conclude from that? Maybe it's not so easy to tell what the viewer is supposed to feel after all?
Why is it so hard to accept that there is no right or wrong, just diffent people viewing the same show?
You believe Rory is supposed to come across as this and that and I disagree, because I don't see her portrayed that way. Imo the other characters are easy to sympathize with (Dean, Lindsay's mom etc), and are shown to be in the right as well. So I just don't see this agenda you are talking about.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If I upset you, don't stress
Never forget, that God isn't finished with me yet
Watch this (It's about an hour, but well worth it!) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh0Tw7qyZ0o
A Fan question in the end is whether any of the actors feel their characters did something stupid that they just disapproved of, and Alexis holds up her mic to say something but Dan interrupts sooner with a joking "Anyone?" (As in, "Anyone dare say anything?" ) and then they just start defending their choices.
Again, someone asks about Rory's decision to drop out of Yale and the fight between her and Lorelai. Amy's answer is incredibly telling: She says she feels like it was necessary for Lorelai and Rory to finally be apart and to experience what life would be like without having each other. Then she says she did this because she thought Rory would need a kick to sort of grow up.
I get what she's saying, and it would have worked out perfectly, except it didn't. Rory never learned anything from her mistakes... things just sort of worked themselves out for her, just like they always did. So it was a push, it was an opportunity for growth, and I can deal with it being necessary; but it didn't result in anything.
So they stopped talking for months, and then Rory said Sorry, and Lorelai said Sorry... and then things just got back to how they were. Rory was back at Yale, not even behind (she graduated on time), nothing. Same thing happened with Dean. She slept with Dean, got yelled at by Lorelai, she went to Europe for the summer to avoid everything; wrote a letter to him, came back to Dean and Lindsey broken up because of her letter, got yelled at by Lindsey's mom... and then, nothing. Oh, she started dating Dean. Then they broke up. Rory, again, taking him for granted.
Seriously, all we're saying is that there was never any sort of consequence for her actions. Things just worked themselves out, people left, accusations were dropped and things forgotten.
Again: I disagree.
There have been consequences, they might not have been enough for you, and Rory might not have developed the way you feel she needed to, but there have been consequences. And weather she's being portrayed as flawless and the victim all the time depends on who you ask, obviously - in my opinion that's not the case while others here say that it is. Opinions, not facts. That's all I'm saying. I hear yours, but I'd like to keep mine. ;-)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If I upset you, don't stress
Never forget, that God isn't finished with me yet
Yeah I can see what your saying with that part although I would like to think Dan was joking and so was Matt and that obviously some do feel their characters did things they didn't want them to do. They feel free to admit disappointment when they are away from Dan or Amy. Alexis said on the Tonight Show she felt like they "over corrected" at the end of season 4 when they wanted Rory to make a huge mistake. Also Alexis, Matt and Kelly have all been critical. Of course Amy and Dan think everything the characters did was right and Amy said she had no regrets because any storyline ultimately got them somewhere. I think she will always defend everything they did on the show. The actors are different. And it didn't look like Alexis was going to say anything in the mic she just said something to the people around her.
I'm sure Amy would argue that Rory did grow because she went back to Yale, class begged, got a place to live, was hired back to the Stamford paper etc. apologize to Lor and got herself out of the Gilmore House. In some ways yes Rory did have to grow up and put forth effort do those things yet Jess is the one who gets her to realize her life needs re-evaluation. I wish Rory could of realized that on her own. Also she doesn't face a lot of major obstacles to get herself back to where she was, there are no setbacks and she even becomes editor of the daily news. She isn't behind or anything like people have said. In a lot of ways it didn't force a lot of major growth on Rory's part. Lorelai did have to pull out her mom card and not talk to Rory for that time and you have sympathy for her. When they reconcile things are mended very quickly and then after that we never really hear much about it later.
That's what I wanted in S5. A redemptive story arc for Rory. Too much guilt to get into another relationship because she didn't think she deserved happiness after her part in breaking up a marriage. Maybe not logical or rational, but that's what I wanted. I may have tired of it after a couple episodes, but I would have gotten over the affair sooner.
I find Dan's interruption telling. The Palladinos think they can do no wrong, and it extends to the characters. They don't want to be held accountable for their actions, and apparently don't think their characters ought to, either.
ASP thinks she's this Rory and Lorelai hybrid and it shows in her interviews.
"When life gives you lemons"
Jessica D: sleep with their fathers and have secret lemon children
I don't know what we're supposed to feel. I've just seen posters on forums over the years, so I see how they do feel. I know ASP doesn't take criticism well and is prone to point her finger at someone else when she's feeling defensive to get the heat off her. Take Melissa McCarthy's not getting invited to the revival for example. I don't know the details, but ASP was asked, and feeling criticized, she defensively put it on MM's people (failing to mention if she reached out before or after MM publicly commented on it). And what did people do? They followed suit; it wasn't ASP's fault, but someone else's. It's obviously not important and doesn't matter, and no one else cared, but there was a more magnanimous way of going about it that a good leader could manage. She might as well lash out on Twitter at 3 in the morning.
The point is, ASP does this in her life and she does the same with her characters. And I've seen it work for her. For years people blamed the network for HER handling of S6, giving her a pass. The same way Rory doesn't get blamed for her stupid choices.
I wouldn't call it a matter of right or wrong. I'd call it the hard way or the easy way out of unpopular character damaging plot lines. The writers could do the work of a redemptive story arc for Rory, or take the easy way out and make someone else the bad guy. ASP, apparently, has never felt Rory needs redemption for anything, so she has never put the work in to redeem her. Ever. I know there are many many fans who are absolutely fine with the easy way ASP has taken. So, fine. But there are also those of us who wanted more and hopped off the Rory wagon.
I don't know how Rory is supposed to come across, I view her as a Mary Sue. She's ASP's untouchable, highly desirable, smartest, prettiest (WISH-FULFILLMENT) character. ASP is not very self-aware though, and would give a different answer. Some people would be fine with that, so okay. Some of us would shake our heads and call her delusional.
To be frank, I don't think ASP was hugged enough as a child.
Private, Rory was not the victim. When a person commits a crime and has to do community service for restitution, that does not make him or her the victim. If I go out and steal and joy ride someone else's car tomorrow, and lose my license and spend a month on jail, that's because I made a bad decision. It does not make me a victim. Rory was very fortunate that her record was expunged after doing the community service. If she had been a person of color from a poor socio-economic background, it might not have turned out that way, she might have had a record. Rory was never the victim in any of these situations of her creation. She played the victim to elicit sympathy from people and avoid the consequences of her behavior. That does not make her the victim.
shareWhen a person commits a crime and has to do community service for restitution, that does not make him or her the victim.Sorry, I should have been more clear, I was not referring to that situation but to the scene where Rory gets verbally attacked on the street by Lindsay's mother.
Sure, it takes two to Tango. It was both of their faults (Dean and Rory), maybe even a bit more Dean's fault, because he should have never done that to his wife when he made a promise to her... But, Rory had that coming. I don't think people wanted more of that; we wanted less of Lorelai defending her. I realize it was in poor taste to just snap at Rory in the middle of the streets, and attacking her like she deliberately did this to break Dean and Lyndsey up, but she was hurt too. Her daughter was hurt, and she was doing what any mother would do.
What annoyed me, and I'm sure most other people is that Lorelai started yelling back at the woman. She should have either walked away with Rory, or tried to calm her down and perhaps make or let Rory apologize. Except, Rory was not sorry! LOL. No matter what, she slept with a married man. You make a mistake, you own up to it. You face the consequences, and you move on. That's what an adult is supposed to do. Rory makes mistakes, acts like a poor little helpless puppy and everyone jumps at the chance to make it go away and clean her mess up, and then all is forgotten.
Seriously, what happened after that? All she faced as the consequence of sleeping with Dean was to get yelled at for 30 seconds. Wow, that should put her in her place. I wanted Rory to feel awful about it. I wanted her to get depressed over it. I wanted the town people being upset with her. I wanted Lorelai to be upset with her, more than she was. I wanted Rory to work for earning people's forgiveness (By people I mean Lyndsey and her mom, and probably Lorelai. Cause she did sleep with Dean at her house)
Dean faced the wrath, why not Rory?
Dean, Jess and Logan always took the wrath for Rory's mistakes ftom Lorelai and the folks at SH. That was one of the most annoying aspects of her character for me.
shareJust like the car accident in season 2. Jess swerved so he didn't kill an animal so they watch to run him out of town with pitchforks. Even the best driver can get in an accident and they didn't care if he was okay but Rory broke her arm, stop the world from spinning. Lorelai and Rory are both lucky Lindsay's mom didn't punch them in their faces. I wouldn't be able to yell to defend Rory in that situation at all.
"When life gives you lemons"
Jessica D: sleep with their fathers and have secret lemon children
Jess swerved so he didn't kill an animal so they watch to run him out of town with pitchforks.
Rory made a mistake by sleeping with Dean, but lets not forget the emotional aspect and the specific point of view.
Rory was clearly in love with Dean and felt like he was hers, and in a sense that was actually correct. Emotionally she was right. He never really loved Lindsay the way he loved Rory, and even the night before his wedding he only thought of Rory. He didn't really want to marry Lindsay but just got along with it - a big mistake, but I don't judge (I've made some horrible decisions in my life myself, so).
So when she got back together with Dean she felt it was the right thing for everyone, because the marriage clearly wasn't making anyone happy. Naive in a way, but well. She thought she and Dean were meant to be together.
So I get that she didn't immediately feel like apologizing, and even more I get that Lorelai felt protective when her child got yelled at in this manner, because that's simply realistic. Most parents would react like this.
Maybe you feel there should have been strict punishment, remorse and all that crap because your moral sense was offended by what Rory did, but I don't think that a tv show is obliged to deal with its characters that way. I personally don't need a character to have a perfectly clean slate all the time in order to like them or to sympathize with them.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If I upset you, don't stress
Never forget, that God isn't finished with me yet
Interesting. To me, that just screams immaturity on Rory's part. She probably did feel that way, but out of insecurity. Right before this happened, Jess showed up again. She was new to all this exposure outside of SH. You have to realize that Rory toyed with Dean throughout the series so much so that it became a habit of hers. She cared for him, for sure, but she gravitated towards him for one reason: He adored her.
Who doesn't love to be loved? So when Jess treated her like crap, or when life was knocking her down, or when everyone else seemed special and destined for greatness around her; Rory missed Dean. He made her feel like the only person that mattered, and so she was jealous that some other girl, whom she thought was unworthy was getting that attention. Rory wanted the comfort that Dean provided, and the acceptance she received from him.
It was not Rory's place to decide what Dean and Lyndsey should do with their lives. She doesn't get to say it's not working out between them. To think otherwise shows immaturity. That's all there is. Rory was a teenager, so of course that clouded her judgment.
I don't hate her character. She's my second-third favorite (Paris is number 1), but I am allowed to be annoyed by how she handled certain things. Or better say, how ASP handled them.
Yeah Rory sleeping with Dean was very believable and something they built up in season 3. Jess abandoned her and Rory spent a chunk of their short relationship wishing he would be more reliable like Dean. Then in season 4 she doesn't really date anyone which I very much enjoyed and people kept pointing it out to her. That made an already insecure Rory very insecure and both of her exes popped up in her life which led to some very bad decisions. When I watched the show as it aired I was really shocked but as an adult I could see the mistake coming a mile away.
"When life gives you lemons"
Jessica D: sleep with their fathers and have secret lemon children
I agree with everything you're saying here, I think it's a great and insightful analysis of what actually happened here.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If I upset you, don't stress
Never forget, that God isn't finished with me yet
Of course people show her compassion and can be more lenient towards her, because they simply genuinely like her. She's generally very nice to people so they treat her accordingly. Think of the nicest and sweetest person you've ever met, it does make a difference.
It doesn't matter how you feel about the character of Rory, she is designed to be a docile, sweet-natured, beloved town girl, that apparently does no wrong for the most part, of course people are gonna blame the smirky rascal for bashing her car.
And what was Lorelai suppose to do in that community college graduation episode? Any sane mom would've reacted the way she does; the clearly confused, sobbing-mess that was Rory was hysterically apologetic, it was her first time skipping school, first time failing to attend an important event (not by choice either)of someone she cares about, all because she was desperately in love with a guy. That's like the one time in the whole run of the show I can honestly relate to her, and Lorelai certainly could, too.
I never got the impression that ASP or whoever wanted to make her a victim in the whole yacht-stealing, mother and daughter cold war catastrophe, quite the opposite actually. She was highly unlikable, dressed ridiculously and overly defensive in that court scene. I watched that episode for the first time when I was a teenager and I thought the judge was harsh, but I knew she was right.
The grandparents' forgiveness, their irrationality served a purpose as they needed to be later proven wrong. That's on them, not Rory.
I doubt most parents would react to Rory skipping school to meet up with a guy that was known for stealing and Lorelai didn't particularly like Jess at this point either so most parents wouldn't be close to okay with that behavior. I can understand why Lorelai reacted the way but I disagreed with her and I felt the same way earlier in the season. Lorelai feels like Jess is trouble but she's so determined to be the anti Emily that she goes against her feelings. I don't find Rory nice based on the show. That's fine if the characters do but ASP managed to always tell us all these wonderful things about Rory but they never showed them. Rory's an amazing writer, a gifted public speaker, guys fall all over her, and everyone likes her so much that she gets handed the Yale editor position or voted valedictorian but watching the show we see a girl who can't hug properly who snobs mostly everyone based on frivolous standards and is very entitled. ASP only likes to tell not show especially with Rory.
"When life gives you lemons"
Jessica D: sleep with their fathers and have secret lemon children
but watching the show we see a girl who can't hug properly
Loll yes it bugs me so watch. I just started looking away when I know the hugs are coming.
"When life gives you lemons"
Jessica D: sleep with their fathers and have secret lemon children
Great analysis, Perfect. The main problem with ASP's writing was that she did much more telling than showing. From what we actually saw, Rory was not a great writer, did not have the personality to be a journalist like Amanpor, was not a good public speaker, and overall was not at all a sweet girl. There was definitely a disconnect between how ASP wanted to portray Rory and how she came across. Perhaps this was due in part to Alexis' acting. I certainly think that Rory's inability to hug was more due to Alexis then to the character.
shareGreat analysis, Perfect. The main problem with ASP's writing was that she did much more telling than showing. From what we actually saw, Rory was not a great writer, did not have the personality to be a journalist like Amanpor, was not a good public speaker, and overall was not at all a sweet girl. There was definitely a disconnect between how ASP wanted to portray Rory and how she came across. Perhaps this was due in part to Alexis' acting. I certainly think that Rory's inability to hug was more due to Alexis then to the character.
That was one long sentence, wow! LOL
Listen, I don't think that part, I mean the part that Rory's well liked is at all confusing. She's a pretty, soft-spoken girl who keeps to herself. There's no reason to hate her, and there's no reason to love her. She wasn't "popular", but she was well liked, and it's the case most of the time. I never went to parties growing up. I am shy. I'm graduating college soon, and I've never been to any parties at all. Not even one. I don't have many close friends, and I see more of my high school friends than I do my university friends. I'm quiet and keep to myself, and never get into altercations with others. That is so rare!
So guess who was voted as the trustworthy organizer for our graduation ceremony? Yeah, Me. I didn't even think people knew my name! I go to class, I go home. That's it. My interactions with other students extends to exchanging notes and opinions about classes and professors. I almost never participated in school sport events either. Just once, and that was because I was dating one of the Volleyball players and just had to be there. So, no clubs, no social activity; but I am pretty well liked. As far as I know.
It does happen, and it happens a lot. Because people like us, who keep to themselves and don't wanna attract attention are usually a delight to be around. Rory was never mean to anyone, never caused trouble for anyone, never hurt anyone. Those are qualities that will make you look good.
not sure if you were replying to me or not, but I would very much disagree with you on that final sentence. You can find plenty of examples, most of which have likely been discussed at great length about Rory's "meanness/niceness/never hurting anyone-ness" in this or other threads here. Lindsay, Shane and Dean for starters. The ballerina at Yale, the study tree guy, grand theft yachting victim, etc.
But I certainly did see her appeal (at least early on in the series), and I could see why Dean, Jess and Logan were all about her. I would have been all about her for the first half of Season 1 too. I don't think she was a particularly great friend to Lane, at least not in the way Lane was to her, though. That was often a one-sided affair after Season 1, or at least that's my memory of it. For example, in the episode where Dean tells Rory to come to his wedding. Rory comes home from college for the first time and her immediate act is to go read at the gazebo. Like she couldn't have done that in her dorm room or at the study tree where she'd drop $20 to make people go away despite having no means of disposable income. I don't know...you'd think she'd head to Lane's first or go say hello to ol' Butch Danes once she rolled into town. But I guess Lane has to take a backseat to a bounded copy of Arthur Rimbaud.
Funny thing is in real life Alexis and I would probably get on swimmingly well. I'm shy/really quiet and super private too. If you add Rory's personal interests in the show to how Alexis is supposed to be in real life we'd be soulmate material at least in terms of our interests and general sensibilities. That said, I still think it would be highly unlikely she'd be as popular as they portray her to be either at Chilton or Yale...certainly not at Yale in that large of an environment. If she were attending a tiny 500 student private university or something along those lines where most students are getting to know one another at least from their ~class of given year~ either by being actual classmates or word of mouth/gossip or whatnot, then sure, that might happen. But not the way she's written in the show. That would be highly unlikely. Your case would certainly be an outlier to my high school and college experiences. Shoot at my high school if you weren't an athlete or offering up Louis CK levels of comedic material, you may have just as well have been John Bender and not even existed at that school.
Yes, people have different experiences in their lives. I just don't think it's so unbelievable that Rory was well liked. Even the same environment has the capacity to appreciate two or more very different personality types. We have people who are extroverts with huge personalities who are popular, and we also have people like me; introverts who don't say much that are popular. (Although, I wouldn't call myself popular)
About Rory being a bully/mean : Come on. You can't possibly think that she was bullying or being mean to the guy sitting at her tree! Their in college, not kindergarten. The guy probably just laughed it off, thinking, "what a sad girl" and that was that. It wasn't a big deal. It sure reflects bad on Rory, she's a spoiled rich girl, but other than that, it was not even close to bullying or being mean. It was just incredibly childish.
Regarding her hurting anyone: I'm saying deliberately. She didn't sleep with Dean to hurt Lindsey; she did it because she thought she could have Dean back and she loved Dean. That's so different than actually wanting to hurt the wife. I just do not associate mean and bully with Rory. All of the things she's done that weren't nice, could easily be linked to her being immature, selfish and spoiled. None of those have anything to do with Rory being mean or a bully.
Rory was often passive aggressive, which is definitely a form of meanness and bullying. When she started sleeping with married Dean, she berated Lindsay to him, saying that Lindsay was selfish and lazy and didn't want Dean to better himself by going to college. She also publicly trashes Lindsay in the market while talking to Lane, and within earshot of Lindsay. How is that not mean? And don't forget that she totally through Paris under the bus when she took over the position of Yale newspaper editor and told the staff that she and Paris were not close friends, only "sort of friends I guess." She lied to Lucy about having known Marty. She moved out of her grandparents house without even telling them or leaving a note, and then when Chris paid her tuition, didn't even tell them about that. Rory was a mean girl, and she got worse each year because anytime someone tried to criticize her, she either ran away or played on people's sympathies, or both.
shareHow can anyone consider Rory a mean person when there are people like Emily and Paris on this show?
Sure, passive aggressive to a point is accurate... Self centered and selfish, immature and spoiled are all valid. But Mean is just unfair.
If she had an affair with your husband, I am sure you would consider her to be a mean girl lol. Emily and Paris had their rough edges, but they never had an affair with a married man.
sharewell of course Rory was incredibly "childish"...how could she not be given the number of times she just randomly bolted off during scenarios that really didn't have the weight that would force that action.
Whether Emily & Paris or even Lorelei or Jess were more "mean" than Rory isn't going to erase her meanness because she may not be quite as "mean" as them. Since kathykato already said most of what I would have noted, and you can find a myriad of threads on this board pointing out how awful both Rory & Lorelei truly were if you really break it down, so I'll just say a lot of the things that make Rory mean spirited and insufferable are the same reasons Ferris Bueller was what he was. A total self-absorbed and entitled d-bag that we're supposed to love for no real reason other than them being main characters who say cute things.
Right now I'm currently thinking about how awful both Rory & Lorelei were to the lady at the B&B they stayed at on their roady to Harvard after Lorelei dropped Max without notice. But that lady totally had it coming because she was super friendly, peppy and upbeat, and had a thing for cats. The thing here is that if the writers hadn't constantly made it a point to note how much the masses in Stars Hollow adored/revered Rory then none of this would be an issue. She would just be a regular flawed high school/college kid. Since they write that everyone in town thinks she's the human embodiment of the angel on top of the Christmas tree is what makes these dissections palatable.
Paris did, however, cheat on her own bf with a man old enough to be her grandad...
shareI think Lorelai kept her cool and was very calm and understanding at first. That was admirable. Most parents would have yelled and gotten angry to the point that they wouldn't even give the kid a chance to hear why it happened or what actually happened. Lorelai showed that she cared about Rory, she wanted to know exactly where she was, why she wasn't there and why she did what she did. I respect that, and it's a great quality of a parent, to give the kids a chance to have an equal stance.
But, after Rory was done ranting about all the ways she was going to make it up to her mom, Lorelai should have done more. She was all ears, no talk. I'm sure they went to dinner after that, pretending nothing happened, and all was fine and forgotten by Sukie's wedding. (Which it was) The mom-thing would have been for Lorelai to ground Rory, not for Rory to ground herself. Lorelia should have said, "you broke my trust, you did something really stupid, here's what's gonna happen. Any and all phone calls go through me, and you won't be seeing Dean for a while, not until you figure out what you're doing with Jess."
That's not an over-reaction, that's not being unfair, and that's not unreasonable. Another poster said it best, she wanted so badly not to be Emily that she ended up hurting her child. I'm not a mother, and I'm 23 so it's not like I don't remember how it felt to be a teenager. I would have benefited from a lot more structure than just letting it be up to me for a lot of things. It's a downside to being a shy/quiet/introverted/bookish/studious/more-mature-than-most teenager. People easily forget that Rory's a kid.
I think it was J.K.Simmons's character in Growing up Fisher that told his teenage daughter she should be locked up in a room until she's out of college. I really get that now. Kids are dangerous. Which is why Lorelai should have been sterner, acted more like a parent from time to time without overdoing it. She's otherwise an awesome cool mom, why not be an actual good mom?
I agree there a lot of times where Rory doesn't receive praise and people call her out for her mistakes. As great as Rory is supposed to be she also very flawed. Are there times where she gets off easy? Sure. Lorelai as well. But then there are times where someone in her life tries to set her straight. Sometimes people on this board exaggerate because of their frustrations with this character and say that she never apologizes or she is always treated like she's perfect. Did Amy see her that way? Sure and yes the town does treat her very well. But then there were many times where all seemed to be going well in life and then she hit a bump. I think Amy and Dan always had these characters making the same mistakes and they painted real life to be this constant struggle of being on the right track and then messing up but never really learning anything. That is why we don't see a lot of growth from Rory until season 7.