As a hot headed feminist myself, I would have reacted the exact same way; probably even harsher. I've had similar arguments with boys all my life. That crack Dean made to them about how it was nice that she wanted to cook for her family; I'd have kicked his ass right then. I think my biggest problem with this whole thing is that men just don't understand how it is. It's all speculation for them, guessing. They usually guess wrong, because it's more complicated than just cooking dinner and serving her husband.
It's about the fact that her main purpose seems to be serving him, in every single way possible. Like a woman is just there so the man can do the important things, that are going to make the world great, easier. It's like having an assistant that's gonna do the simple, mundane chores for you so you have time for more important stuff: cooking, cleaning, laundry, having babies, raising babies... and will ultimately make you feel good : sex.
So no, Dean and any other guy or girl who thinks it's nice to be Donna Reed; It's not nice.
It's nice if you like to cook dinner for the ones you love. But it's not nice when it's the only thing you do, they expect you to do it, and you have no other goals, purpose or use.
I thought the whole thing was funny, though. How Rory dressed up as Donna and cooked; and then Lorelai making fun of her about the pearls and the shoes.
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fishpan
8 years ago
This is part of the problem and it allows things like Men's rights to get traction.
Yes the situation in a home can be complicated. But we have to get past the knee jerk jump to assume what people mean because it pushes people into boxes that can be nasty because of reactionary responses because it isn't the 1950's anymore.
Dean wasn't allowed to expand on why Donna Reed was nice to him before Rory and Lorelai jumped on him. It kills debate and causes both sides to go to the corner and become entrenched.
It is actually nice if one partner can stay home with the kids, male or female as long as it is their choice and the family can cope with it financially. It can show a very strong family unit if it is done in parentship. Which Dean did iterate because his mother stayed at home when he was little and she also went to work when he was older. So Mrs Forester actually fitted all but one model - the single mother. She was a stay at home and a working mother who while the store was getting on its feet was probably the breadwinner for the Forester family. It shows for most women nothing is consistent and her support was a partner who Dean never seemed to put in higher regard than her.
In fact it can be argued that part of the downfall in his in Lindsay's marriage was his need to try and fulfil Lindsay's dream of her being a homemaker and him the breadwinner - because they weren't equal and we saw that Lindsay wasn't an oppressed female in regard to being told to stay home. Because the big bad husband wasn't forcing her not to work. We saw in many ways her parents were enabling it and neither Dean or Lindsay were strong enough to tell them to back the *beep* off or to have an open discussion about it among themselves that Lindsay not working while Dean working himself into the ground wasn't working for them.
It is also disingenuous to assume at Stay at home parent is only a stay at home parent as Rory found out.
A reactionary response like you describe can in the long run cause more problems than it helps. More and more men are staying at home because their female partner is earning more - great as it gives kids more time with their dads. But more and more surveys are coming out asking the question do these men feel emasculated. Why? Because men are 'supposed' to be breadwinners and even when they aren't whenever someone says it is nice if mother can stay home someone in the room jumps in and starts shouting about how terrible that woman's lot is instead of calmly going on about how if it is choice and they are financially and personally secure then it is as perfectly valid choice as going to work and how for parents who work we desperately need better child care and more flexible working.
Why shouldn't stay at home parents feel a bit bitter or slightly off if that is how framing of the discussion about how society sees them always seems to involve how they are victims or weak.
Sure they should feel more secure but they are only human.
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yeamf-93422
8 years ago
I think they only had such a strong reaction because Dean was saying that about Donna Reed, a specific situation/person; not a woman who cooked dinner and was nothing more than a stay-at-home wife and mother. It wasn't like he was voicing his opinion based on a discussion, he was reacting to a tv show that clearly was sexist. It came off as him trying to defend the tv show when Lorelai and Rory were obviously slamming it.
Like I said, it's fine if people want to stay at home to take care of children. Heck, I might even be fine with someone wanting to stay home because they don't want to work if they can afford it! If it's a mutual decision, and people know what they're doing; then it's fine. I would never do it, I hate that society thinks a man has to work or that a man is somehow less of a man if he decides to stay at home to take care of children. It shouldn't even be a man/woman thing. It should be partners in a relationship, sharing responsibilities.
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fishpan
8 years ago
But your first response doesn't really mention you respect staying at home if it is a choice.
You jumped on stay at homes are oppressed and sorry they don't need anyone's approval for their choice to do so as long as they have worked out how to make it financially viable if i remember the scene correctly Dean himself was talking about specifics.
You can tell me if I am wrong
Dean walked in and had to ask who and what they were watching and was told it was Donna Reed. He didn't know the show or its meaning. He barely gets through his salad before the discussion happened. So he has barely watched any of Donna Reed, he is asking the question about a show that he doesn't really get why Rory and Lorelai are taking the mick out off.
But when Dean voiced his opinion and asked what if she liked cooking for her family (Donna Reed) and he got the joint look of death so he backed down from the discussion. But for me he was taking it from a modern perspective, people who make that choice, especially as he had his mother as a real world example. He isn't seeing things as that is the only thing she does because he's seen homemakers do more than simply stay at home.
Rory and Lorelai were on the surface completely right, but they were taking it from a historical view point which is also valid but was a bit blinkered.
As it is also telling that until Dean gave Rory the example of his mother Rory didn't seem to admit he had a valid point, she didn't seem to be willing to look into Donna Reed to see more. You walk in on Rory's first view and your first response and you would think that to them and women who stay at home are akin to those forced to wear burkas and anyone who thinks different are oppressive gits
I'm not saying that Rory is bad in this respect I am just saying that going in for the kill without taking a breath can make the situation worse with regards to debate.
It doesn't help what ASP did to Dean later on, with Lindsay desperate to be a traditional wife. But again I think there is a bit more to Dean's character than simply him wanting a Donna Reed wife and not liking it like some accuse him of. He just wants to please whoever he is with so he goes along with it. He put up with Rory and Jess, he put up with Lindsay's family around every night and essentially kicking him out of the home he is paying for.
The boy has no real self worth and it isn't much but in the revival just him having a partner that tells him to go visit his folk is kind of nice even if it was just to get him out from under her feet while she deals with three sick kids.
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