This movie crosses it. Especially in that first battle scene. I mean holy jesus, sometimes the dialog comes a full second before someone's face is even shown, every battle sequence is lazy and almost reminiscent of behind the scenes footage of lotr battle sequences, and the camera just seems to cut between two places at freaking random!
Anyone else notice this?
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law!
Well, it won Best Edited Feature Film at the American Cinema Editors Awards. Editors should be able to tell if it's bad editing or not, right?
This is not LOTR, Thelma and Marty rarely do invisible editing and a lot of people seem to have a beef with them for that reason. The film was two years in the editing room. It has many flaws, but the editing isn't one of them, in my opinion. The camera cuts between two places at random because she was channeling Eisenstein. It's purposely confusing and disorienting, just like the actual battles. The full second before someone's face is shown during dialog exchanges works to the same effect. I read a good analysis on it a few months ago on some site, which included an interview with Thelma, but I can't seem to find it anywhere now. I'll share the link if I manage to find it again.
Nice top 10, btw.
Language! The thing that means stuff.
I kind of agree, coming from someone that loved the movie.
Did the editing really get an award? That's just bizarre. You can see the Priest getting his arm severed in one shot, then it repairs in the next before Bill kills him. This was from an alternate "death" for the Priest where he's hacked to death by both Natives and finally Bill.
Really though I thought the editing was completely off.
----
I'd love to see you in the moonlight with your head thrown back and your body on fire.
It got an award and several nominations.
It was nominated for Oscar, BAFTA, ACE, Satellite...
Again, continuity is not a concern in the type of montage Thelma was trying to do. It's mainly the rhythm that's important. The editing was trying to convey what an actual battle is like, and not just showing one. Thus the confusing cuts, lack of continuity, and the nearly frame by frame slow motion when the blows of the fight start taking effect. The editing serves as the medium more than the actual scenes.
I managed to find the interview I mentioned it, but I can't find the analysis I read some time ago. Anyway, here's the link: http://www.moviemaker.com/editing/article/making_movies_with_marty_271 9/
And here's the link to the wiki page of the said technique.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_montage_theory
Hmm, that's interesting. I've seen parts of Battleship Potemkin and might have to watch the whole thing now.
Still though, to make a battle where "continuity isn't an issue" could easily be mistaken for laziness. I'm glad Marty hasn't kept at that particular style after Gangs. Perhaps even he realized afterward it wasn't a good addition to the film and might've detracted from it a little bit.
----
I'd love to see you in the moonlight with your head thrown back and your body on fire.
Yeah, and most people do think that it is laziness. Because it is completely different from the invisible editing we grew used to watching (or not noticing). He didn't keep the style completely, but he still plays around with the editing and continuity a lot in his most recent films. Especially in Shutter Island, in which you have pieces of the set completely disappearing in between takes and jump cuts that seem completely out of place and break continuity. IMDb list most of those as goofs, but they are actually intentional and work as a hint that Leo’s character might not be seeing things straight/is insane. Kubrick did similar things in Eyes Wide Shut and The Shining, which are also listed as goofs on IMDb.
It does look odd, sometimes. And puts off the audience. But when it comes to editing little people know more than Thelma Schoonmaker, so I can’t believe it is sloppiness.
Language! The thing that means stuff.
Wow, I LOVE rewatching Eyes Wide Shut for that reason. Talk about a movie that's very meticulous with every little detail. I love it for never clearly distinguishing either way what exactly is happening. For that reason Kubrick might've called it his best and it's certainly my favorite from him.
Thelma definitely knows what she's doing. I think my judgement call on GoNY's editing is more whether or not Marty should've even implemented that idea to begin with. It seems like something he passed on to her, and while she did a good job accomplishing what he wanted, I still would've preferred the film without it.
I give him credit for trying something different though.
----
I'd love to see you in the moonlight with your head thrown back and your body on fire.
I think my judgement call on GoNY's editing is more whether or not Marty should've even implemented that idea to begin with. It seems like something he passed on to her, and while she did a good job accomplishing what he wanted, I still would've preferred the film without it.
This is fascinating! I hadn't even considered that this editing style was in the least bit intentional.
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law!
I just came to this board to talk about the editing of the opening battle. Just awful! Like a 90's U2 music video. And the music choice, oy vey!, very 1980's Michael Mann.
-- Sent from my 13 year old P.O.S. Desktop®
In GONY,editing,production design,score and cinematography are one and in symbios. The sudden quick zoom-ins,the way Schoonmaker follows Bills axe as it is headed for Amsterdams face,the combo of score,cutting and cinematography in the first battle,,,,,amazing and Scorese clearly didn´t compromise here,it often feels like an expensive homemade film by someone who really knows what he´s doing.
With that said,why I can´t give it an Oscar for editing....The axe bouncing of Monks(Brendan Gleeson) back and then in the next sequence,it´s in his back. Soooo sloppy and unnecessary.
I saw it as a dreamlike sequence as it represents the memory of Amsterdam as a child.
The fight starts off with minimal contact, minimal violence, jarring movements and sounds. From the eyes of a child disbelieving what he is seeing. It's like the memory of a traumatic event.
The violence becomes increasingly visceral, smooth and realistic as Amsterdam accepts what he's seeing. It culminates in seeing the death of his father in Crystal, indelible vision.
It took me a couple of watches to get that as I first thought huh, WTF. Now I think genius understanding of how memory works, how things are distorted and viewed through a lens.