MovieChat Forums > Enemy at the Gates (2001) Discussion > Would a real sniper favor the head as hi...

Would a real sniper favor the head as his target?


I only saw this movie once at a friend's house so I don't have a copy to review but it seemed every time Vassili and Major Konig had a clean shot on an enemy soldier they always aimed for and hit the head. Even the "impossible" running target of Koulikov.

I'm assuming this is dramatic license because under the terribly unfavorable combat conditions and with a human target that was often moving I would assume a sniper would be satisfied, even lucky with a hit in the torso. Also, wouldn't the steel helmets offer some protection from a glancing rifle bullet making the head that much less desirable and not the target of first choice?



" Don't that picture look dusty?"

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In heavy cover and city fighting often-times the head above the eyes is the only available showing target. The artistic license was showing more of the bodies than would be visable in known sniper infested areas.

There is an advantage to wounding rather than killing which is that it can take up to 4 soldiers to rescue one and this takes up available manpower from other duties, such as fighting and defending.

On the other hand if you remember the opening fountain scene headshots were very effective here because there was no scream and the shot couldn't be heard in the battle clatter. So he was able to kill many officers before anyone noticed by having a good prone position and using head shots.

It is true that for more difficult and moving targets the head is usually a very bad choice, so once again artistic license. On the other hand that doesn't mean it never happened with crack shots who were trying to instill fear in the enemy as much as kill.

You make a good point, but there is no right way in real life because the goals and environments are too varied, and there is no right way from the artistic license standpoint as well.

Great movie, on this I think we can agree.

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This

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[deleted]

I think it made for good entertainment but in reality I think snipers would shoot in areas of the body to allow the wounded to cry for help. This would bring more soldiers/officers to come to aid, resulting in more kills.

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jdhib66


I think it made for good entertainment but in reality I think snipers would shoot in areas of the body to allow the wounded to cry for help. This would bring more soldiers/officers to come to aid, resulting in more kills.
*facepalm* walks away laughing.

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*facepalm* walks away laughing.


Ignorance is clearly bliss in your case. What he described is an old sniper bait tactic.

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[deleted]

True. Similar in fact to how the Vietcong used punji pits in Nam. The pit incapacitated the soldier so that other soldiers would basically walk into an ambush whilst trying to free them.

It's an excellent tactic, I'm actually suprised you don't realise that. Actually judging by the intellect of many that post here, maybe I'm not.

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in reality I think snipers would shoot in areas of the body to allow the wounded to cry for help. This would bring more soldiers/officers to come to aid, resulting in more kills.

I don't think that was the goal in this movie's situation. Zaitsev was more concerned with killing officers, not getting a high body count. In fact, the very first kill Zaitsev gets is a general. In one scene, the Germans even mention the fact that a lot of their officers, killed by Zaitsev, are having to be replaced by Sargeants, which was the reason they brought Konig to Stalingrad - to stop the loss of vital field commanders...and to make a point, of course.

........the idiotic cock-eyed flum-dummery!

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In one of the first scenes after he's become a sniper, they show him aiming at a common soldier, starting to pull the trigger, then stopping and letting him go.

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A sniper's job is not to get as many kills as possible it is to eliminate high value targets and to cause fear in the enemy by killing a target from an unknown location.

~Thanato

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True

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I'm no expert but I want to add my two cents on this...

Generally speaking a sniper would likely pick his target depending on the nature of their mission/objective/deployment/whatever. I would guess that back in WWII the target would be whatever is most practical for the situation, e.g. if you want a distraction you might just wound someone, whereas if you're wanting to get past a small patrol or something you might as well finish them off 'cos they'll continue to cause you problems.

Of course you have to remember that these days there are far more pieces of international legislation and treaties in place that so to speak, "prohibit" or at least condemn death even in wartime. Think about it: just about all Western military avoid shooting to kill as much as possible and half the time will shoot someone just to sew them back up again afterwards... to prevent civilised societies being up in arms about the military killing people on their own turf.

And as for the thing about the helmets, the protection they offered from the sniper rounds was probably negligible back then. I'm sure the construction of the helmet, the rifle & rounds used, range and a bunch of other factors would dictate if the round would penetrate the helmet or not. I'm also pretty sure that a sniper round would get through the paper thin helmets we were using in the 40's.

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"Think about it: just about all Western military avoid shooting to kill as much as possible and half the time will shoot someone just to sew them back up again afterwards... to prevent civilised societies being up in arms about the military killing people on their own turf. "

I have heard about dangerously restrictive rules of engagement our combat forces are constrained by and other outrages like reading the enemy Miranda rights or setting up yellow tape and counting spent cartridges after a firefight. God help them.



" Don't that picture look dusty?"

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This is old but if a sniper shot a man and did not relocate he would be dead pretty quick. It's not a video game.

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There are "Snipers" and "Designated Marksman". Snipers deal with high value targets "HVTs" and designated marksman deal with immediate battlefield threats.

"May God have mercy on my enemies as I shall have none"
"George S Patton"

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I only saw this movie once at a friend's house so I don't have a copy to review but it seemed every time Vassili and Major Konig had a clean shot on an enemy soldier they always aimed for and hit the head. Even the "impossible" running target of Koulikov.

I'm assuming this is dramatic license because under the terribly unfavorable combat conditions and with a human target that was often moving I would assume a sniper would be satisfied, even lucky with a hit in the torso. Also, wouldn't the steel helmets offer some protection from a glancing rifle bullet making the head that much less desirable and not the target of first choice?


Shot placement varies considerably with the type of sniper being discussed. Military snipers, who generally do not engage targets at less than 300 m (330 yd), usually attempt body shots, aiming at the chest. These shots depend on tissue damage, organ trauma, and blood loss to make the kill.
Police snipers who generally engage at much shorter distances may attempt more precise shot at particular parts of body or particular devices: in one event in 2007 in Marseille, a GIPN sniper took a shot from 80 m (87 yd) at the pistol of a policeman threatening to commit suicide, destroying the weapon and preventing him from killing himself. Less lethal shots (at arms or legs) may also be taken at criminals to sap their will to fight or reduce their mobility.
In a high-risk or instant-death hostage situation, police snipers may take head shots to ensure an instant kill. The snipers aim for the "apricot", or the medulla oblongata, located inside the head, a part of the brain that controls involuntary movement that lies at the base of the skull.

The helmet would protect against any .30-06 bullet fired from further than 250 yards(assuming German helmets offer around the same protection as Soviet).

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/03/28/shooting-wwii-soviet-ste el-helmet-sks-mosin-nagant/
http://tinyurl.com/ltsqlzj

Two links in case IMDB breaks the long one.

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When I was in school we were taught to aim for the forehead slightly above the eye brows. This was back in 1992.

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Base on what I have learn in the (movies) head and the left side of the chest is the major parts to kill the enemy.

God has a hard on for marines because we kill everything we see. He plays his game, we play ours.

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[deleted]

I think it makes sense to target the head not only because it means certain death IF the sniper thinks he cannot miss, but it also means that the target will not shout to others in the areas warning them about the sniper, if they might be around but not seeing the target with their eyes.

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A real sniper will "favor" whatever target he can get a bead on.

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shooting at targets is extremely complicated

decisions are based on

1- objective

2- Conditions ( hitting the target is based on environmental conditions - atmospheric conditions , wind .rain , snow , rifle and ammunition )

3- sniper skill

4- sniper training ( concealment and field craft is a primacy)

- snipers may spend a week or more preparing positions and a day getting to a hide

Military strategy

- are you on the offensive ?

- are you on the defensive ?

is the prime directive to gain time or kill people ?

soften the target by destroying leadership and cohesion >

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