Historical inaccuracies


Apologies if this was already discussed. I randomly checked threads and didn't find any.

What are the historical inaccuracies in movie ?
Was there real Vassili as portrayed in movie ? Or is exaggerated ?

As far as opening war scene is concerned I find it very authentic.

I have been reading lot these days about WWI and WWII
In one of the article I came across :-
Joseph Stalin issued August 1941’s “Order No. 270,” which proclaimed that any troops who surrendered or allowed themselves to be captured were traitors in the eyes of the law and would be executed if they ever returned to Russia. The dictator later upped the ante with July 1942’s famous “Order No. 227,” better known as the “Not One Step Backward!” rule, which decreed that cowards were to be “liquidated on the spot.” According to some estimates, Soviet barrier troops may have killed as many as 150,000 of their own men over the course of the war, including some 15,000 during the Battle of Stalingrad.


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In Russia it took more courage to retreat than to advance

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So-called "blocking units" were actually Trotsky's idea, way back in 1918.

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Actually pretty good coverage and in-line Historically- can't speak about the Love Story obviously- but they didn't take any crazy liberties and worked with actual true premises on most fronts...

USMC

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No, see my post. Even touched on the love story.

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Well the one rifle every other soldier scene at the beginning of the film was actually from the First World War when the Imperial Russian army went to war without enough Mosin Nagant rifles for their huge army. The Red Army had supply problems at the beginning of the war but this was remedied by late 1942 when the factories were relocated in the Urals, hundreds of miles out of range of the Luftwaffe. Also American/British Lend-Lease was full underway, the Russians were receiving supplies through Iran, Murmansk, Archangel and Vladivostok. Many Red Army soldiers at Stalingrad preferred to use the PPSh-41 sub machine gun, in favor of the bolt-action Mosin-Nagant because the street fighting was more close quarters. For really close they prefer spades, knives, make-shift weapons. Anything they can get their hands on.

Now there are exceptions, the penal military units known in The Red Army as the Shtrafbat, are punishment battalions reserved for the worse soldiers. They were often sent in poorly armed. Though if wounded and survive, they may find themselves back in the ranks of The Red Army. It may seem harsh, but these men were good for spotting machine gun nests, snipers and clearing minefields.

Order No. 227 wasn't used correctly at all in this film. The order was meant not to retreat and give land to the Germans, not retreat from being thrown back from a failed assault on an enemy position. The Order served better as propaganda. In fact even Blocking Detachments that prevents the rear guard from fleeing were disbanded by 1944.

That human wave attack, that was dumb. The only time I have heard about such attacks at Stalingrad were from the shtrafbat battalions. The actual battle of Stalingrad was fought much more brutal. The Red Army soldiers used "hugging" tactics against the Germans. Basically they put the front lines so close to the Germans that the Germans couldn't risk using dive bombers without hitting their own guys. It was a battle of attrition that bought time for the STAVKA leaders Zhukov and Vasilevsky to plan a huge counter-offensive with a build up of strength without the Germans noticing. It worked as the German 6th Army found itself surrounded in the counter-offensive known as Operation Uranus.

German soldiers named the street fighting style known as "Rattenkrieg" or "Rat War". They would quip "We may have taken the kitchen and hallway, but we still fighting to take the living room and bedroom!" So many buildings were taken, then retaken several times. I believe one of the train stations changed hands 14 times in 6 hours! On multiple story buildings you have soldiers fighting on multiple floors. There's the famous Pavlov's House which for some reason hasn't been made into a Hollywood film. This huge fortress that killed more Germans than they killed the first phase of the Battle of France (in legend) and no movie on it? Then again Hollywood would make the soldiers American and set it in France or something.

Zaytsev was only a small part of Stalingrad. He was one of many snipers who took out German runners, repairmen, officers and despite what the movie makes you think, the prize wasn't the officers, it was the artillery spotters. Killing those guys means you get to live a little while longer. The duel itself with the German sniper, might have been fabrication. As was with Zaytsev's affair with Tanya who was an accomplished sniper herself.

To end this, there's been numerous articles about Red Army veterans being insulted by this film. Not just from the opening scene travesty but several scenes of them dancing or playing music. They couldn't have done that because remember, they kept close to the Germans so they didn't want to give away their exact locations.

Anyway, entertaining film, just awful history.

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Thanks. Yes, the film is entertaining. However, I do wish that a film could be made about Stalngrad that shows the real strategies and tactics used. I guess that's just unrealistic.

I had to laugh at the scene titled "German Headquarters" that has about 50 german tanks in front of the H.Q. tent. What, were they storing the tanks for later? How stupid. The tanks do not just sit in front of H.Q. tent! Not even camouflaged.

I get that the film is not trying to be accurate and trying to make dramatic statements. Oh well.

Sig, you want a sig, here's a SIG-sauer!

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The realistic or at least close to realistic movie about Stalingrad has been made, albeit from a German perspective. It is from 1993, and is simply named Stalingrad. Director is Joseph Vilsmaier.

There's a Russian movie from 2013, also called Stalingrad, but I haven't seen that one.

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Pretty spot on.

There are no historical records from the Germans that there was even a sniper duel. However, I believe Zaytsev stated that there was a duel with one enemy sniper at the Mamajev Kurgan hill. However, there were no German officer snipers in the Wehrmacht; let alone a Major called in to fight on the front lines!

Also, at the aforementioned hill, the Germans and the Soviets fought over it repeatedly. There were several charges (from both sides) similar to what we saw at the beginning of the film. However, these were large scale attacks, with artillery and mortars.

Zaytsev was a high ranking Soviet Navy desk jockey and he volunteered for a Red Army marine type unit. Many Soviet naval personnel volunteered or were conscripted to joining marine type units. I don't recall in the movie, but it was common for the marines / former navy Red Army troops to wear their standard striped naval shirt underneath their army jackets / tunics. So at some point, assuming Zaytsev kept in this naval tradition, we should have at some point seen him in the striped shirt.

The fact that at times the battle just seems to be between Koenig and Zaystev is ridiculous. This was the bloodiest battle in human history, and one of the largest battles in history also.

As you pointed out, the house to house, room to room fighting was virtually null in this film.

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thanks "Georgy_Zhukov" for the balance but it is good to remember that

the war against Germany ( and its allies)was really won at

- Moscow
- Kursk
- Stalingrad
- Kharkov

it was the Russian Ivans sacrifice which made victory possible

kindest regards

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According to some estimates, Soviet barrier troops may have killed as many as 150,000 of their own men over the course of the war, including some 15,000 during the Battle of Stalingrad.


Show data from Soviet archives, don't give me western estimates since they couldn't estimate anything accurately for obvious reasons.

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Hi Slay-er,

I am too curious to know more about it. That is why I shared paragraph from article. Article might be biased or not.

If you have more authentic info, do share please.

Thanks

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Could be wrong, but Konig is wearing a Gebirgsjager version of the M43 mutze, issued only to mountain divisions. Further, the cap boasts an eidelwiess badge on the left side, as worn by mountain troops.The ribbons and etc on his tunic do not bear out this gebirgjager association. Also, the 116 division that Konig says the service medal came from is not a mountain division.

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Oops! My mistake. The badge on the cap is a WW1 jager insignia. Also wrong with the cap. Jager abtielung in WW1 were not mountain troops.

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Vassili also worked with a spotter. The other sniper he actually said he dueled for a short time was tricked by Vassili's spotter who raised his helmet on a stick and got the sniper to fire, exposing his position which Vassili then shot. So that scene is slightly accurate, but not something that should be taken as fact.
Vassili was also blinded long before the battle was over and had no love affair during his time there




Panzer vor!

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I think it is important to note --- One should never expect anything like historical accuracy from any movie --- Unless it is labeled a Documentary

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