I mean all the men in this movie are portrayed as being (potentially) violent or abusive towards women.
Is this a view shared by many women? That all men are threats? If it really is so then feminism took a wrong turn somewhere.
I, too, think feminism took a wrong turn but it has nothing to do with women being wary of men (and others).
Who do you really know? The best recent examples are the guy (name was Roberts, I think) who shot the Amish schoolgirls and former House Rep. Mark Foley for sex talk with underage House Pages. Everybody says both of these two were really nice guys.
How do you know what fury or perversion is hiding deep inside a seemingly normal person? Family, neighbors and friends nearly always say they never saw it coming.
So, who do you really know? Who do you really trust?
I see your point but always assuming the worst of people sound very cynical too me.
Seems like a difficult philosofy to live your life by.
On a second note I also think what I perceive as an enemy mentality among feminists towards men isn't helpful.
And I have a problem with stereotyping all men as women-oppressors. My two cents.
It is very cynical but it may save your life someday. I don't react this way initially with someone, it usually surfaces later if a relationship/friendship seems to be in the future.
And that friendship could be man or woman. Some men can be mean but I've had more problems with friendships with some women who can be vicious. Jeesh, what started that?
The feministas may be part of the problem with men, maybe what they've said about men has made those men feel inadequate and they lash out. I don't know, I'm just guessing.
haha, I remember a guy I dated after I got divorced. Poor guy, I really made him jump through some hoops for me to feel safe. But he was a really patient guy, he went with it and we were together for a few yrs.
Why feel guilty about what other men have done? Be the best person you can be and it should all work out in the end. Have you ever seen the movie, 'The Goodbye Girl' with Marsha Mason and Richard Dreyfus? Funny movie and it explains a lot of this stuff. We all have to carry each other's baggage.
There is surely more violent stuff around!!!
"I have seen and heard things in my life that are best left UNTOLD!"
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of course not all men act as wild beasts (with all respect to beasts, whom I adore), but there certainly is in many men something obscure and horrible that is quite rare to find in women... I mean men do seem to perceive sex (or love, or call it whatever you want) in a somehow completely different way from women (I hate generalizing, but still...), too many of them seem to feel deep down inside that their woman belongs to them, and unfortunately not in a romantic way. every day you have some guy killing his wife, ex wife, girlfriend etc., the contrary is really really unusual (some women kill their own children, but that's another sad story). you can blame it on feminism, and all that it brings forth (loss of total control over women, that makes some men feel the ground beneath their feet quite shaky), but you can never forget that men in history always have used their power over women, sometimes to the most tragic consequences. but I'm loosing my direction. I just wanted to say that some people seem to have a disgusting vision of sex as completely detached from any kind of feeling, and I'm not talking of love only (it can become a bit of a bore after a while;), I mean ANY kind of feeling, even the mere gratefulness for the person who is kind enough to share your bed.
I could go on and on and on, so I cut it here. sorry for the confusion!
to the one who feels guilty for being male: don't, there are happily so many wonderful people out there, so generous, so kind, so loving towards women, men, animals, everything! always do the best you can to be one of them, that's the rule I like! cheers
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Some feminists have very distorted views and see all men as rapists, all sex as rape, even so-called consentual sex. I guess they think the species should stop having sex and die off, or have in vitro fertilization. Clearly, they're out of whack. Some feminists hate men. They promote hatred and prejudice of men, based upon irrational anger. Because they were abused by a family member or friend or stranger, all men are rapists in waiting.
http://www.fatherhoodcoalition.org/cpf/newreadings/2001/feminist_hate_speech.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misandry
Sure *some* feminists think that, but I think the number is very very low. I've never met one. I've taken women's studies courses, gone to sessions at Women' Centers, and most of my female friends call themselves feminists and none of them not once have said or done anything that indicates that they hate men -- even the lesbians.
I would say that the number of feminists who see all men as rapists and hate men are just about as high as the number of men who actually are rapists.
I think it's very common for people who are victims of crime to develop bigoted attitudes towards another sex or race. Try talking to women who were victims of rape or incest or other abuse. I think you'd find that hatred or fear of men is more common. It's a basic flaw of humanity. We forget the good and remember the bad and create prejudices based on anecdotal evidence. Being raped or abused by someone makes you more likely to hate and fear others like them.
Being robbed at gun point by a black man will tend to make you hate or distrust blacks. Being raped or abused by a man will tend to make you hate and fear men. It's not rational, but it is how the human mind works. I think a lot of men are pigs who sexually harass females, fondle children, get women drunk and have sex with them, drug them secretly, or worse. I've heard enough reports of this just from family, friends, and acquaintances. Better safe than sorry.
Really, you shouldn't trust anyone. Order your own drinks and don't drink after leaving your glass unattended. Don't leave your kids unattended with uncles, or cousins. Don't walk in isolated areas, esp at night. Tell people where you are going and who you are with. Keep your guard up. You are less likely to run into the rapists if you don't put yourself in vulnerable situations.
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To: AtheistRevolution
That last comment merely cements the viewpoints of the superior woman who made the points to which you responded. You and your kind make it SOOOOO easy. It must be said: "Thank you." By your misogyny, colossal ignorance and utter stupidity will you forever be known. Please, DO NOT BREED.
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No. This movie is about Franny and why/how she could become attracted to Malloy who is the antithesis of romance. His manner of speech is rough and unadorned. It's direct. Everything about him is direct and real. He loves women. You know that by the way he has sex with Franny. That's partly why the sex scenes were so raw. To show them enjoying each other sexually.
The opposing men--serial killer who kills by romancing women, a young student unsure of how to treat a woman he wants, a guy on the verge of a nervous break down--yes, they show violence toward women in varying degrees.
But Malloy, even though he shocks with his speech, it's clear he absolutely cares for Frannie.
It's not all about feminism or women being afraid of men. It's just a love story between Franny and Malloy trying to find an honest way to each other.
It's a pretty good movie.
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That's a really interesting viewpoint; thanks for posting it.
shareExcellent conclusion
shareWould you consider yourself a mangina after watching this?
Therefore we may call that art true at which does not seem to be art."
I'm a woman and totally agree with what you are saying in your posts. Feminism definitely took a wrong turn. However I dont think this is a feminist movie or book at all. This story is much more about a woman who is not afraid to be who she is (a woman, open, vulnerable) and walks with her eyes wide open into danger.
Yes the men around her are all dangerous. She is a single unprotected woman living in a big city and takes no precautions (walks alone at night in a neighborhood where there is a woman killer, keeps going towards Malloy even though there are many reasons for her to think he is the killer...etc) and literally follows her curiousity with her eyes wide open. The reality is that such a lifestyle will get a woman into trouble. That's just reality. I've lived in big cities on my own and if one is not careful of who they allow close to them, as a woman, they are opening themselves up for trouble.
However, this occurring in the film is just fascinating, the character is indelible and her walking into her own destruction, and how Meg Ryan truly opened herself up in this movie is just a cinematic masterpiece. Dont feel bad for being a man. This woman (dont get me wrong I LOVE this character, she is probably my favorite character ever brought to film) allowed danger into her life. An unprotected vulnerable woman alone will invite nothing but danger. That's just reality. And frankly that's what she wanted. And as a woman I'm gonna say, there's nothing wrong with that (though women protect yourself! there are killers out there for real!!).
there's nothing wrong with women being women. and men being men. It's a beautiful thing.