MovieChat Forums > Freaks and Geeks (1999) Discussion > The most compelling characters...

The most compelling characters...

posted 12 years ago by chas437
25 replies | jump to latest

The most compelling characters, IMO are Lindsay and Ken (Seth Rogan).

I just finished watching the series for the second time. It struck me that Lindsay made a conscious decision to hang with the freak crowd in order to avoid all the mind-numbing conformity of the typical high school experience. As an elite student, she would be expected to participate in all sorts of extra curicular activities, i.e. Mathletes. She would also have to deal with the issues of popularity, reputation, etc.

So, as Lindsay "hides" out with the little freak crowd, and bides her time waiting for high school to end, the other freaks are completely oblivious to her motives. The exception being Ken. I think he knows what she's doing, and this is why he is so cold to her. The fact is, he may be doing the same thing himself.

I say these things, because I did the same thing myself. I graduated HS in 1981, so this series really hits home. For me, high school was something I couldn't stand, and I was just waiting for it to end, and college to start.

"For dark is the suede that mows like a harvest"

[–] Quicksilver1900 12 years ago

I really don't agree with this. The freaks were horribly dangerous to Lindsay. The scenes at Kim's house and later in the car were among the most shocking and violent I have ever seen in a series of this type, and she was actually in danger. They exposed her to risk with their illegal drug use; she could have ended up with a criminal charge on her record or damaged by her own drug use. She faced all kinds of possible harm going off with Kim and the Deadheads. They were absolutely toxic to her and her parents should have forced her to cut all contact with them.

Her motivation seemed to be to get out of her former achievement-focused competitive world, and the freaks were ideal for this, because they were completely non-achieving and non-competitive. But she was also motivated by pity for them - there are a number of examples of this.

The fact that she had so little control of her outcomes with them and did suffer harm as a result of her involvement suggests that she hadn't thought it through at all, and just drifted into it. Her clueless parents should have intervened instead of enabling her. Millie and Mr Rosso were the only ones who had real clarity on this.

I think Ken was just a disaffected slacker. We don't know much about him except he came from a wealthy family and had no motivation.

[–] chas437 12 years ago

I agree with what you say about Lindsay having pity for the freaks, and not being in control of outcomes. But, I believe Lindsay smoked pot only once, and the other activities really weren't very dangerous, at least by the standards of those days.

I see Ken as a kid that probably blossoms in college. He is clearly smarter than the others in the freak crowd.

"For dark is the suede that mows like a harvest"

[–] Quicksilver1900 12 years ago

Ken's life plans were to go to work for his father, inherit the company, and then sell it and live off the proceeds. Clearly his family was well-off, very different from Daniel's and Kim's families. He didn't have to achieve anything, unlike Nick and Lindsay. He was just clocking in until he could put his plan into motion.

It's true Lindsay only got high once, in the first season. But if she kept on with the freaks and the Deadheads, it could have been just a matter of time before she adopted their habits.

And as for danger - there were so many instances where they got her into trouble. She was lucky she escaped punishment with the cheating episode. Driving around with them looked pretty dangerous (the Halloween episode). Plus she could have been prosecuted for vandalism (destroying the mailbox). They were always urging her to cut classes. And so on... And I got the feeling that she only went off with the Deadheads because she felt sorry for Kim, who had no options for the summer holiday.

[–] chas437 12 years ago

Like I said, Lindsay's dangerous behavior was very tame by standards of the day. I went to an elite liberal arts college in 1981, and drugs were everywhere. Now, those kids who did all those drugs back in the day, are college professors, authors, CEOs, Doctors, Lawyers etc. I had friend who followed the Dead for a few years and did LSD a great many times. He's a professor at an Ivy League college today.

There was almost an innocence about adolescent shenanigans in those days, and it is shown in the series. This is why "F&Gs" is so nostalgic for most of its audience. Its a lot different for kids today, as parents tend to freak out over issues of underage drinking, marijuana use. But, back in the 70s-early 80s, nobody really batted an eye.

"For dark is the suede that mows like a harvest"

[–] Quicksilver1900 12 years ago

Heh. The burn-outs depicted in that series are not the 'college professors, authors, CEOs, Doctors, Lawyers etc' of today. The drugs in themselves were not the problem. But recreational drugs combined with low self-esteem, no discipline, no record of achievement, no mentoring, no math or English competency, no successful friends, a bad reputation, no vision for the future - these all add up to permanent loser status.

Context is everything.

[–] chas437 12 years ago

I'm not saying "The burn-outs depicted in that series are not the 'college professors, authors, CEOs, Doctors, Lawyers etc' of today". I'm saying that mild drug use(pot, some LSD, and loads of beer) was very prevalent in colleges and universities back in those days. That's just the plain truth. Most kids may have indulged a bit, but got their act together at some point. A few indulged too much and got kicked out. A few experimented a little, but never really indulged. I see Lindsay as being this type.

Just because a 20 year old kid takes acid at a Dead show, doesn't mean they will become an instant loser. I know for a fact that many very successful people today went through some wild phases in their youths.

Attitudes have changed drastically since 1981.

"For dark is the suede that mows like a harvest"

[–] Quicksilver1900 12 years ago

Lindsay wasn't 20; she was only 16. There is a world of difference between 20 year olds at an elite college using recreational drugs and 16 year olds with no clear future mapped out for them. A 16 year old is different in his development, experience, judgement, and legal status. Yes, there was hope for Lindsay, once she got out of that dreary polarised high school setting. Unless things went drastically wrong for her, eg, she got into major trouble, or had some life changing event like having a baby, she was going to forge on with her destiny as a successful graduate and professional.

But her association with the burn-outs threatened that, or at least, it threatened to temporarily derail it. As Mr Rosso said, she was a short while away from having to apply to college, and damaging events on her record, or a loss of motivation could imperil her progress. Times were certainly more forgiving back then due to more favourable economic conditions; people could make mistakes and then hook back into the system.

I like to think that if Lindsay were my daughter, I wouldn't be so clueless and self-absorbed as her parents. I would see that she was depressed and alienated, losing motivation, floundering around, and hooking up with unmotivated losers. And if I couldn't turn it around, I would force her to change schools, or even home school her if need be.

[–] chas437 12 years ago

Also, I saw Lindsay going off to follow the Grateful Dead as her liberation. In those years, all the hip, smart college kids loved the Dead. I remember my freshman year, I was exposed to great music like the Dead, Bob Marley, Talking Heads, etc. It felt like liberation from all the crappy music people listened to at my high school.

I believe this scene is conceived very much along the same lines.

"For dark is the suede that mows like a harvest"

[–] Quicksilver1900 12 years ago

Enjoying the Dead's music was not the problem. But betraying her parents' trust and running off in a van with people her parents had never met, enabled and supported in this by Kim - this is a big problem. Hopefully it led to her being grounded for a long, long time.

[–] joedogboy68 10 years ago

Deadheads were a specific variety of burnout/loser. Joining them would be no more "liberating" than joining a cult.

Many of the people who I met in college who loved the Dead ended up dropping out of the university.

[–] jefgg 10 years ago

Good point.

[–] MacsDuster 12 years ago

Kim Kelly and Nick Andopolis

I HATED Kim in the beginning and couldn't wait for Lindsey to tell her *beep* off. However, Kim Kelly is My Friend was an amazing episode that really showed how vulnerable Kim was. She quickly became one of my favorite characters. Her friendship and tumultuous on-again, off-again relationship with Lindsey and Daniel, respectively, were both so honest, sweet, and subtle.

Nick is just too adorable for words. The first time I watched the series I remember being so angry at Lindsey for continuously turning him down. However, on rewatch my bias went away and I saw how Nick was his own worst enemy. He was so sweet and good-hearted, but also creepy and needy. No matter what, though,I always wanted him to succeed. I felt he was the only one in the finale who didn't get a real resolution in the finale.

This is an environment of welcoming, and you should just get the hell outta here. -Michael Scott

[–] chas437 12 years ago

I felt sorry for the Nick character, but I also remember kids like him in high school. You just knew they would either end up in the military, or working at menial labor jobs. They almost had the deck stacked against them.

Did the show have a finale? Or was it cancelled before they made the last episode? The final episode, where Lindsay ran off to follow the Grateful Dead seemed like a season finale, rather than a series finale.

I guess I relate most to Lindsay, because my high school experience was so much like hers. High school, and all its social conventions seemed like an absurd joke, and I counted the days until it ended. But for some, the high school years are the highlight of their lives.

"For dark is the suede that mows like a harvest"

[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] jefgg 11 years ago

I maintained two groups of friends when I was in high school. It was difficult at times, but worth the trouble. I had my clean cut friends in chorus. And I had my burnout friends. Sometimes I caught some poop over it. But in the long run people will respect you for doing your own thing and not caring what they think.

It is hard to pick a most compelling character. It is probably Kim Kelly. Initially she seemed very simple. As the show went on you could see how complex she was. And she wasn't even in the opening credits.

[–] 11 years ago

[deleted]

[–] TwoThousandOneMark 10 years ago

I guess I'd have to go with Nick.

Sure his home life isn't broken, but his father seems to have zero emotional connection with him, which is even worse.

His friends take him for granted, mock him when he's trying to open up, & he can't bring himself to be honest with Lindsay that he's not over her all the while pretending as they're friends.
Maybe if he wasn't stoned or stressed about the military, he could give her the 411 lols.

[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Hezzer_Wezzer 10 years ago

It's been a while since I've seen this show, but I remember having the distinct impression that Lindsay only began hanging out with the freak crowd to get closer to Daniel. This might make her seem like any other boy-crazy schoolgirl, but the hormonal teen girl wants what the hormonal teen girl wants.

Maybe I am confusing this with another show, but from the first episode, I had the impression that Lindsay was deeply affected by the loss of her grandmother to the point that she became completely disillusioned with her present high-school life and looked to escape into something different with the freaks.

[–] wooody 10 years ago

You have a good memory.....you nailed it!

[–] Quicksilver1900 9 years ago

Lindsay really didn't have too many other options. She was bored and fed up with the mathlete crowd, and was not a female jock, band, theater or chorus person, and not A list material. The burn-outs were all that was left.

[–] finbarr-saunders 9 years ago

OK... 3 page thread on most compelling characters & nobody has yet mentioned the most compelling character of them all IMO.

Bill Haverchuck

Go on Stanley, stick one in Jane Russell & win a goldfish.

[–] Fibre_Optic 9 years ago

Yes Bill as a character I didn't particularly like till about the halfway point and then he came into his own.The guy was just all kinds of weird though,whichwas obviously the point of his character.It was almost like he had an head injury or something, which made his character even more interesting tbh. The same with Sam, he got on my nerves at the beginning,with his whining and moaning but grew on me as the show went on and became a much cooler guy..

The most obvious one imo is Lindsay, I loved her character development throughout the series and obviously Linda is a very talented actor who played the part to a tee,she carried the whole series really well, seen as it was generally about her.

I went through a hate love relationship with Kim. First she just seemed to be a complete bully, but when we started to learn more about her, her upbringing and insecurities, I really took to her. Same with Daniel. He was obviously meant to be the douche at school who pretended he didn't care about anything or anyone but there was more to him, even though he generally manipulated people to his own ends.

The one I cared least about was Ken. He frankly only had a few sarcastic lines every episode until he got a girlfriend that one episode, apart from that he was a bit of a non factor. It's funny I recently watched this and Undeclared back to back for the first time in about 7 years and Seth Rogan played Ken in both series but as it turned out, that's what Seth Rogan does, play Seth Rogan.

[–] Lewsir 9 years ago

Finbarr - YES. I was thinking the same thing. I agree with earlier posters that various freaks were quite good - since they were older there was naturally more complexity to their lives, and they all were good actors so yes they were all compelling in their way. But Bill (Martin Starr) was much younger, and was an amazing character, who shined through more and more as the series went on. My single favorite moment in the show and perhaps all time from tv shows was when he confronted Mr. Fredrichs the gym teacher (whom he later had a lot more interaction with, poor Bill), and explained to the guy that - yes, as gym teacher he actually was responsible for a system where the cool kids picked the geeks last, and yes, there were specific actions he could take to remedy it. That moment - the look on Harris's face, the words that Bill chose, his intensity in saying them, was riveting for me. Probably not realistic because no 14 year old would have the guts to do what he did, but he spoke for every 14 year old who has had to go through all that crap in gym class, and in school in general, that he was experiencing. He shined through in many other situations as well.

[–] finbarr-saunders 9 years ago

Bill was just awesome.
This is the guy who went trick or treating dressed as Jaime Sommers the bionic woman.
"No! These are not bionic! These are all me!"
Nuff said.

Go on Stanley, stick one in Jane Russell & win a goldfish.