There has been many debates on when the rapture will occur, pre-trib, mid-trib, post trib or no trip. I see this movie portrays the pre-tribulation rapture. I would like to make an argument by showing a video that explains that the rapture will occur before the wrath of God. That is what we are saved from! We are saved from the Day of the Lord!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JV2txxxdVEQ&feature=channel_video_title
We are saved from the Day of the Lord!
Wait. Can you identify the verse which actually says that? I listened to the youtube thread you referenced but also read what is actually written in the bible. The problem I see is that people somehow expect to be saved from terrible days that appear to be coming and they believe the Bible supports their perception. Yet all through history believers and innocent people alike have suffered terrible, persecution. If you read the newspaper you will see that is still happening today all over the world. In fact, Jesus encourages his followers to endure persecution (even unto death) for his sake. So why would he suddenly change his mind? In truth, he doesn’t.
Take another look at Matthew 24. The disciples ask Jesus when he is returning and when the world would end. He tells them clearly that all Hell breaks loose on earth BEFORE he returns in the air (only once). He tells them that the days of GREAT tribulation will have to be shortened to prevent the complete annihilation of everyone on earth:
Matt 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Matt 24:21-2
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Matt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
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Now I will show where most believers get the idea they will be saved from terrible times yet to come. Many people claim 1st Thessalonians 4:13-18 as proof of the Rapture but it was actually written to console believers about loved ones who have already died:
1st Thes 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
So tell me, how come no one ever sees that part?
Yes I can point to that verse.
1Thessalonians 5:9 For God has NOT appointed us to WRATH, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.
The wrath of God (Day of the Lord) is not the same as the tribulation period. We will suffer through some of the tribulation period.
Revelation 7:13-14 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? And whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said unto me, These are they which CAME OUT of GREAT TRIBULATION, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Revelation 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
I do not agree with the pre tribulation or the post tribulation. I agree with the word of God that tells us we are saved from his wrath, which is the day of the Lord. We will see the Anti Christ, we will see the great revival, we are seeing the great apostasy now. We will experience some of the new world order. As well as the two witnesses. As you can see in Revelation 11 7-12, the witnesses are raised up as well. That is the beginning of the rapture. Next is the dead then the ones who are alive.
Revelation 11 7-12 Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them. Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city, which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified. For three and a half days men from every people, tribe, language and nation will gaze on their bodies and refuse them burial. The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth.
But after the three and a half days a breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and terror struck those who saw them. Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on.
This is my take on the whole thing.
1. First of all, the bible doesn't actually say ANYwhere that there will be 7 years of tribulation. The scripture that it is taken from is the 70 weeks prophecy in Daniel. So, my question is..... why would there be a 2,000 + year gap between the 69th and end of the 70th? In all time specific prophecies week 3 always follows week 2. Week 25 always follows week 24. There is never a gap, nor does the bible anywhere EXPLAIN why there would be a gap.
2. According to Jesus, and I don't see how so many people miss this.... Jesus says that as far as the ALIVE people here at the end, the angels come down and destroy the wicked FIRST.... THEN those of us left are taken up. Its right there in the parable of the wheats and the tares. He said the tares are gathered and burned FIRST... then the wheat is taken. So, any Christian should WANT to be left behind! One will be taken and one will be left is found not only in Matthew, but in Luke as well. Luke 17. At the end, right after he says one will be taken and one left here and there....
Luke 17:37- "And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body [is], thither will the eagles be gathered together."
Would the apostles be asking where were people LEFT? Or where were they TAKEN.... Some food for thought!
Cass is hard on a meat suit........*sigh*
Yes, we definitely want to be the ones "left". The first are the ones taken in by Antichrist (Satan) When you take "taken" back to the Greek it means to associate oneselves with. This is certain to be the Great Apostasy because Satan comes disguised as an angel and looking like the lamb of God.
And you are right about the 7 years. Christ tells us this time has been shortened for the elect's sake and in Rev 9 it says Satan has a 5 month period. People seem to miss this fact alot as well.
Mirage8530 seems to be “caught up” in the delusion. I will have to respond to him later when I have the time.
Mcgregorgirl, I think we are essentially on the same page. The New International Version translates Luke 17:37 this way:
"Where, Lord?" they asked. He replied, "Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather."
Now in this translation the word vulture is used instead of eagle and we know that vultures are scavengers which feed mostly on dead carcasses. It also uses the phrase dead body instead of body. These changes clearly make the meaning of the verse far less ambiguous. The disciples are clearly asking where the bodies will be "taken" and Jesus replies that the "taken" will be slain (i.e. dead body). "Taken", as in "drafted" into military service where many will apparently become food for vultures.
Hi julielb67! How ya been?
Hi julielb67! How ya been?
I am absolutely not caught up in the delusion. Can you please explain why you feel that way? He who endures into the end will be saved. I am reading 1st Corinthians, and Paul directly talks about their divisions among them. Why do we have divisions among us? Every Christian has their own "cherry picked" beliefs it seems like based on how many different denominations. Some of those "cherry picked" beliefs are by our wrong interpretation. Just like this discussion here.
What is the real reason why you believe the pre-trip rapture is the case? Is that sounded by bad interpretation or simply because you personally don't want to endure the rough times of tribulation? We will be prosecuted in the name of Jesus in that time. We all have our own opinions. Our opinions don't really matter. Aren't we all under the same Holy Spirit? Why not ask him directly for discernment about end times prophecy? I have been. I am very passionate about it.
I have also studied the men who indeed will help bring this tribulation to pass. The Illuminati. These men exist as well. They work directly with Lucifer and trying to establish their new world order as well as the foundation of the anti-christ. They are also massive deceivers and have indeed infiltrated our churches.
A perfect example would simply be Joel Osteen. He teaches the prosperity doctrine, doctrine of devils. We don't come to Christ to get rich or to gratify the flesh? Doesn't Paul speak about that in Romans 8? We live by the spirit not by the flesh. I hope everyone who is in this discussion can come together and live by the spirit and ask for it's discernment in regards to this subject. We all want to be right. We all must act in obedience to His will. Not by our own opinions. I will be the first to say that the pre-wrath rapture is wrong if it is badly interrupted.
I will say this. That, who will be there to preach the gospel to those who go through the tribulation period? We will until the Day of the Lord.
@ Mirage8530
I am afraid I misread your initial response. My bad. Please forgive my cursory scanning of the text. Taking a few minutes more to reread your post straightened me out! It seems there is never enough time to do a job right in the beginning but always plenty of time to do it over (lol).
No, I don’t believe in the traditional “Rapture” and I believe the “wrath” we escape is the finality of death (i.e. everlasting life, as it says in John 3:16).
I don't believe there is such an event called the "rapture" The second coming "is" The Day of the Lord. And while we are here during the tribulation, those in Christ are saved from his wrath on that first day of the 1000 yr reign.
We don't need any videos to tell us that, it's all in the Bible.
by Mirage8530 » Tue Oct 11 2011 19:16:04What is "pre-trib"? share
IMDb member since December 2008
There has been many debates on when the rapture will occur, pre-trib, mid-trib, post trib or no trip. I see this movie portrays the pre-tribulation rapture. I would like to make an argument by showing a video that explains that the rapture will occur before the wrath of God. That is what we are saved from! We are saved from the Day of the Lord!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JV2txxxdVEQ&feature=channel_video_title