The relationship between Imogen and Al started to get sour. At the party, Al has a chance to cheat on Imogen, but doesn’t do it. Imogen wants out of her relationship with Al, so she cheats on him with Jim.
Why not just break up with Al cleanly? Why be a slut?
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Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. - Mark Twain.
The only thing I can think of is that it made the movie more interesting...
shareBecause, unfortanately, this sometimes happens in real life. It doesn't make you a slut. It means you are young and immature. She wanted a way out. But, the only way she knew to do it, would be to screw him over. Subconsciously, she knew that if she cheated on him, he wouldn't want to continue to try. Whereas, if she simply told him she wanted to break-up, then he's probably convince her not to.
shareSure, things like that happen in real life, but that doesn't make it acceptable!
Anyone who thinks it's better to cheat on a lover, then tell them about it to end the relationship rather than just say, "It's over. I don't love you anymore.", is a selfish jerk who doesn't deserve to be in a relationship with anyone.
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Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. - Mark Twain.
<<<Anyone who thinks it's better to cheat on a lover, then tell them about it to end the relationship rather than just say, "It's over. I don't love you anymore.", is a selfish jerk who doesn't deserve to be in a relationship with anyone.>>>
Wow, you're being a bit harsh, aren't you? Does this close-minded way of thinking pertain to all aspects of your life? As in, if you make one mistake, then you are banned from whatever activity that mistake was in?
No one said it was better to cheat. But, hey, life happens. And to say, that a person that has cheated before doesn't deserve to be in a relationshop with anyone is just downright ignorant. If that were the case, then there would be a heck of a lot of single people out there. I would guess that at least 90% (if not more) of people have cheated at one time or another on a significant other. Some of those people actually learn from their mistake and go on to meaningful full relationships. And others, well, unfortunately never learn.
I'm guessing that you have either been cheated on, or perhaps are from a family where one of your parents cheated. Which, if that's the case, yeah, that sucks. I've been there. But, I learned from both experiences and apply it to my life everyday.
So you think I'm harsh, close-minded, and downright ignorant because I believe in honesty in a relationship? WOW! You seem pretty harsh from where I'm standing.
Yes, a lot of people cheat on their partner in a relationship. I doubt the number is anywhere near 90%. Yes, sometimes it can be forgiven if a person keeps pushing their partner away by saying, "I'm too tired." "I have an early morning." or "I don't feel well." But cheating is a coward's way of dealing with the problem. The right way is to say, "Our relationship is in trouble, either we work to fix it, or I'm leaving you."
As for me personally, I've made plenty of mistakes. I've probably made more bad choices than good ones, but I've always known the difference between right and wrong. Sometimes, you have the right to hurt somebody for pay-back, but you do it face-to-face, not in the back.
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Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. - Mark Twain.
Well, yes, in this situation, I think you are being harsh and close-minded. As for the ignorant part, I didn't say YOU were ignorant. I said that thinking that someone that cheats never deserves to be in another relationship ever again is an ignorant statement.
But, I really think you are missing my point. I never said it was acceptable to cheat. I just said that it unfortunately happens....quite a bit. You may not believe that, but it does. You may not know it, but I'm sure there are lots of people that you know that have fallen to the temptation of cheating.
Or, maybe I'm wrong. Perhaps, you are a rare case of where you and everyone you know has great restraint when it comes to things like this. I, personally, do not know many people, who haven't at least once, effed up and cheated.
This doesn't make them bad people that should never be allowed to have relationships again. It just means that they are human and have caved to a moment of weakness. If we aren't going to be allowed to learn from our mistakes, then what's the point? One strike you're out? I don't think so.
Again, I'm not saying it right, but it happens. And if we are able to learn from it, then that's good. However, if a person is a serial cheater, then yes, that's not cool. But, one college relationship that goes downhill in a bad way, is not, imo, an unforgivable offense.
Since you began this discussion by defending Imogen's actions, I'll assume that you are female, not that it matters, but I want to understand your point of view.
Of course, I've known people who've cheated on their partners, even some members of my family as you've already guessed. Probably about 30% of the people I've known were cheaters, certainly not 90%.
You keep talking about "learning from your mistakes". That means you didn't know you were doing something wrong in the first place, like driving through a stop sign because it was hidden behind a tree branch and you didn't see it. But anyone in a relationship should already know that it's wrong to cheat on their partner, that doesn't have to be "learned by doing".
Certainly there are different types of relationships, some exclusive, some open, but both people have to agree on what is acceptable.
Yes, people should get a second chance if they make a mistake, but NOT if what they do is very obviously wrong! I'm sure you don't think a killer should be let go if it's only the first time they killed someone!
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Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. - Mark Twain.
Yes, I am female, but that has nothing to do with it.
To be able to learn from your mistakes does not mean that you didn't know it was wrong before you did it. For example, I knew when I was a teenager that sneaking out of the house was wrong before I did it, but I still did it, because I thought it would be fun. But, uh-oh, I wasn't so smart about it and my parents found out and then I was grounded BIG TIME. Guess what? I learned from that mistake, and didn't sneak out again. (Well, at least not for a few more years. But, by that time I was 18, so I was an adult after all)
So, back to Imogen. I wasn't necessarily defending HER actions. Had it been Freddie's character (I cannot for the life of me remember his character's name right now), I still would feel the same way. It was a one-time deal. They were young. They were still learning how to love someone.
I've been cheated on and it sucked. I've also done the cheating, and that sucks, too. I knew it was wrong because one, duh, I was raised to know the difference between right and wrong and, two, I knew what it felt like to be cheated on. But, I still did it. And I felt like total sh!t afterwards. Becasue no matter which side of the fence you're on in that situation, it hurts. It hurts to know that I could be so inconsiderate myself. Thinking only of myself. But, I learned, that's not a good feeling and that I was going to be a better person from then on.
And originally, when I posted my first reply, I was defeding you calling her a slut for one mistake. I wasn't defending the act of cheating per se. That mistake was very slut-like, but it doesn't mean that she is a slut. Now, if after the movie is over, and they are living happily ever after, and she does it again, then we can all call her a slut.
(I really should get back to work now, huh?)
You being a female does have something to do with your opinion, because men and women see things differently.
I think you are confused about the concept of a mistake. A mistake is getting lost when you drive to a place where you've never been before. When you snuck out of your house as a teenager, you weren't making a mistake, you were breaking your parent's rule, and as you said, you knew what you were doing so it was no mistake. For you, it was a gamble that you wouldn't get caught, but you did get caught.
So, back to Imogen. On second thought, I agree with some of your points. I think she was a freshman, which would make her 18 or 19. Teenagers think they know it all, but they really don't know much of anything yet. So, yes, maybe Imogen just didn't know how to end a relationship without hurting the other person. She was not a slut in that situation. Actually, if a girl is looking to fall in love with the "right" guy, and she has several relationships along the way, I would never consider her to be a slut. I'm sorry that you got cheated on. I'm sure you didn't deserve to be treated that way.
Maybe I expect too much. If my relationship starts to go bad, I try to fix it. If I can't fix it, then I say goodbye and leave. I wouldn't cheat on somebody who once meant a lot to me.
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Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. - Mark Twain.
Wow, RARanieri, it seems impossible to discuss something with you but I'm going to try because I can't believe some of your accusations/comments and feel like I have to see if you really understand what you write?!
RARanieri wrote
Since you began this discussion by defending Imogen's actions, I'll assume that you are female, not that it matters, but I want to understand your point of view.
WOW, CinnaBlaze,
YOU completely missed my point by at least 10,000 miles! I actually had to go back to read my original post to make sure that I had written it in English!
Even after reading your long, rambling post, I have no idea what you "thought" I meant! But hey, you obviously had a lot to say about something, so good for you! It has been so long since I watched this movie, I barely remember it, and I'm really not interested in it any longer.
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Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. - Mark Twain.
"Anyone who thinks it's better to cheat on a lover, then tell them about it to end the relationship rather than just say, "It's over. I don't love you anymore.", is a selfish jerk ....."
I strongly agree. Along with being selfish, she was also cowardly and cruel. Even if she didn't think she loved him anymore, she had to have at least some feelings for him and had to know it would hurt him deeply to sleep with another guy while they were still together unless she was a complete sociopath. She should have just broken off the relationship first before moving on. To think that she was just being honest when she told him about it is BS. She felt guilty and only told him so she would feel better about herself no matter how he might have felt. She was just cruel. Why a guy would want to get back together with someone like that is unimaginable.
And I don't think she really wanted to break up with Al just because she slept with Jim. The thing with Jim appeared to happen out of loneliness or something and she seemed to regret it immediately, not that her guilt excuses her behavior,but I don't think she did it because she didn't want to be with Al anymore.
shareSo im literally watching this part of the movie right now and i think you all are forgetting something important - they had a fight. and yea that doesnt excuse her sleeping with jim, but i have seen plenty of good people be angry and feel alone after argueing with the person theyre with and they end up seeking validation and comfort from someone else. Its not good for the relationship obviously but it doesnt make them a slut it just means they made a mistake and it happens especially when there are strains.
besides when it does happen its usually in young relationships like this.
My first love almost did this to me - he literally was walking to the girls room on a trip with a condom in his hand when he saw i left him a voicemail and turned around. We didnt last more than 3 months more
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Sorry just watched this movie last night and as a little IMDB nerd I did my IMDB boards lookup and stumbled upon this and it got me sort of riled up! lol.
Ok,
People in college probably cheat a lot.
Some people don't know how to handle true love or a serious relationship until they reach 50 years of age. Kids in college are kids. Even young 20's is a very confusing time in many ways.
I have never cheated. I have never been created on.
My mom cheated on my dad.
A couple of my best girlfriends in high school, both awesome people, cheated all the time. Not every "boyfriend" they cheated on were serious, but a couple were. Neither of them cheat anymore. One stopped doing stuff like that immediately she met her first love. The other continued cheating with her serious HS boyfriend for 7 years after until they broke up. He kept taking her back.
I myself, despise cheating. If someone cheated on me, I don't know if I would give them another shot. 99 percent of me, feels i would not. Do I know this until I'm in that situation? No.
Would I ever cheat on someone I truly loved? Also, 99 percent of me feels I couldn't possibly hurt someone like that. I've felt this way on both accounts since high school and I am now 25 and recently got engaged to my first real love.
Do I think people who have cheated don't deserve love or relationships? Dude, and this goes to the OP. Who's to effing really say? Everyone on this earth, every relationship, everyone and their feelings are so incredibly different.
There is definitely right and wrong. Moral issues. Cheating, when doing it behind their back, lying, out of spite, hate, carelessness, selfishness or greed - is wrong.
Breaking up in person, or telling that person they aren't happy anymore but do not necessarily want to end it yet--being honest even if it kills them, is the smarter, more sincere thing to do. Truly. There you have it, black and white. Not always so easy.
But life, love, everything..... Is so far from black and white. There are so many reasons people cheat. There are so many different kinds of people who cheat. And there are so many kinds of people who shun their exes for it, or take them back. It's all *circumstantial* due to whom you are, how you feel, and what went on in the relationship.
True story:
I once had a friend-- a married man, who has been with a sweet, loyal, beautiful wife for almost 10 years. They have two children. He has his dream job. They live in a beautiful house. He loves his wife. Adores his children. Both of them are around 35. Got married very young, at 23. One night out of the
blue, for the first time ever, a young beautiful 26 year old randomly messages this man on Facebook. He's a good person. Never cheated once, great father, good provider. He not only answers her flirty message but starts talking
with her, daily. He begins the conversations everyday, to her surprise. He tells her he's married with two kids and doesn't want to lead her on, she realizes this, and backs off.
He began flirting with her almost right away, and starting up very personal conversations everyday. He tells her she makes him feel "alive again" gives him "butterflies again" and says they *must* not should meet in person. The young girl? She is engaged, living with a 30 year old man. Their relationship is on the rocks. The married man and young woman divulge to one another they both feel unfulfilled in certain ways and are unhappy in their very cemented situations. She feels neglected, he feels numb and also neglected. They both have their complications. For a month they begin what you could call an "emotional affair" as they talk all day, every day on the phone and Facebook. They lie and scheme to get to meet each other only twice in person. The most they did physically was hold hands. She asked for a kiss, he said he could not "out of respect, but knows he will regret it."
His wife found their month of messages on Facebook and he frantically ends the "affair" on the spot. Never spoke to her again.
His wife told him if he ever speaks to her again, it's over.
Were these two people bad people? No. Not to begin with, and not during their conversations or meetings. For whatever reason, they needed each other in their lives. Was what they did morally right? The behind the back convos, having feelings sexual or more for someone else and expressing those feelings? No, not right. But neither of them took it to a hotel the first night they met either. Never even kissed, though they both wanted to. They both felt conflicted. They both felt guilty.
His wife forgave both of them. They married couple are fine now. The young woman never told her fiance what the situation was as she felt her relationship was in limbo land that month and the few months prior. He knew she spoke with him alot, and she she called him a friend. She felt justified, as he had been neglecting her emotionally and physically for months. And most of their relationship his strong suit was not affection. He said he understood why she needed the attention. They are still together as well.
If sex were involved it may have changed everything! But the point is, thatis a story of both a man and a woman in a similar state of mind, who are not bad people which is why both of them were essentially forgiven. Sometimes relationships aren't cookie cutter crap. And I'm a freaking feminist! I despise porn, I see that as a betrayal in its own way as well. Does every man who looks at porn all the time not deserve a relationship? Do the men who prefer porn to sex and neglect their wives/girlfriends for porn not deserve love? Some might, and others may not. It depends on what's going on their relationships.
But you've been debating on this particular movie and this specific relationship.
Now I am a woman, and here is my opinion. Imogen effed up. And so did AL. Their relationship was young, naive, and progressing and learning at a very young age. Their fight before she left, she mentioned the naked pictures under his bed. Maybe that's part of why she slept with Jim. Maybe she was afraid, or angry, or confused.
In life there are many times the situation AL was in, the guy would go for Cyrus in the second he knew he could have her. Especially in the horniest of years.... **College**.
And the girl, might hang out with Jim for the attention but she would be the one not to cheat.
It always, always goes both ways.
In this instance, AL forgave her. In my opinion? Rightfully so. And if it were reversed, if AL cheated on Imogen with Cyrus, the girl he already had naked pictures of under his bed. No, I don't think that's as forgivable---but Imogen was mature for her age, who knows, maybe she also would have forgiven him years later. After realizing he was the one. After growing and learning. If AL had slept with some random girl that night? Much more forgiving than Cyrus. See how not black and white it is? And that's life. And like I said, I despise lying and cheating, but every relationship is like a different snowflake. They all are completely different and have different patterns to them to make them stick, or not stick.
The second poster was spot. On. Whether she was female or not. And I will say, I've known a lot of girls to cheat, but I've met more men who have than women. That isn't me stating anything specific, saying one gender is worse than the other, but it's just an observation.
And the blue texted person rocks. You're right, why ask a question only to tell the responder they are wrong because their perspective was different?
I hope for the OP's sake, they learn that life and love and cheating can't and won't always be "You've made a mistake. You should have known better. You are a bad, horrible person, you don't deserve another chance or a real relationship"
That. Isn't. Life. And least of all love, the most complicated emotion on the planet.
I am not sure how old you are OP, or how many relationships you've had, or whatever. And I respect your opinion and I think it's wonderful you would never cheat, and that you have the same expectations. But don't judge others so quickly. That's your choice, and that's fine, but you won't find life to ever be that easy, I promise you.
Also, sorry, I know this may be the longest post in IMDB history but hey, communication/learning is what life is all about; Something huge I wanted to point out
"slut" pertains to a man or woman who has sex a lot, with different people
"whore" is a woman who or man who has sex with people for money. The trashier term for "prostitute"
Imogen was neither a slut or a whore. She made a mistake that hurt AL and hurt herself. Please don't be so quick to use these words about humans so easily without their actual meaning being accurately put to use. That's an insult to women (from your point of view) and also an insult to both genders if
coming from a woman.
Just like mot everyone who learns slower or differently should be called "mentally challenged" and not everyone who is African American should ever be called that horrible word, and so on and so forth. Be careful with name-calling. You were so quick to call Imogen a "slut" when in the entire movie, she made one mistake, under certain circumstances.
K, I'm done now.
First of all thanks for sharing. It was interesting reading. I have to agree with most of what you said however I take issue with you categorizing what she did as a "mistake". I see that referenced as such all too often here and calling it such trivializes what she did. The definition of "mistake" as a noun is "an error in action, calculation, opinion, or judgment caused by poor reasoning, carelessness, insufficient knowledge, etc.".
What she did, she did purposely, knowing full well what she was doing and the consequences, so how could it possibly be called a mistake? It was wrong and hurtful but what she did was not unintentional. She was mad at him and probably wanted out of the relationship; only feeling bad and regretting what she had done afterwards. So to call it a mistake is a lame excuse only used to trivialize the behavior and evoke sympathy.
I've come to realize that script writers often use that term when trying to romancize infidelity; disguising it with complexity in order to persuade viewers to defend or sympathize with a cheat.
I normally hate resurrecting dead threads but seeing as your response was more than 6 years after the original post, I'll make an exception.
You are very clearly confused in thinking that mistake and accident are perfectly synonymous. THEY ARE NOT. You define "mistake" as error in action or judgement caused by CARELESSNESS. It does not mean that it was done without knowledge of right and wrong or without an understanding of the possible outcome. It is perfectly within the meaning of the word mistake to refer to doing something that you know is bad or dangerous but for one reason or another you act against your better JUDGEMENT and do it anyway. Perhaps you do it without thinking ahead and only focus on the moment at hand. It's not uncommon for people, especially young adults, to act without thinking or to say "I'll deal with that when it happens" regarding the consequences of their actions. Like a buy now, pay later mentality.
It reminds me of a line from one of my favorite books.
“No, it wasn't an accident, I didn't say that. It was carefully planned, down to the tiniest mechanical and emotional detail. But it was a mistake.”
― John Paxton, On the Beach by Nevil Shute
Your obvious desire to paint infidelity as a simple black and white case of unforgivable cruelty only shows your lack of depth in understanding of human emotion, a holier than thou attitude and what is pretty clearly a jaded opinion due to possibly being cheated on yourself. Either that or you are just very, very young. In the real world of grown up relationships there are many contributing factors to the decisions we make. Nothing exist strictly in black and white. There are always multiple sides to every story and many angles to consider before passing judgement.
What is especially funny to me is that you mention writers trying to romanticize cheating when in this movie in particular there is no attempt made to excuse her actions. He cusses her out and breaks up with her. She admits she was wrong and cowardly. The fact that he forgives her for a juvenile indiscretion and wants her back is in no way making light of her actions. It's a very realistic outcome of an all too common scenario.
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