MovieChat Forums > Minority Report (2002) Discussion > why didn't the pre-cogs see the villain?

why didn't the pre-cogs see the villain?

posted 9 years ago by Grandizer74
13 replies | jump to latest

Apologies if this has been brought up before.

Anderton is tagged with a brown ball, meaning the murder he's charged with is premeditated. At the time the vision came in he didn't even know who Leo Crow was. It was Lamar going through the process of getting Anderton framed that triggered the vision with the premeditation aspect.

Given that, why didn't the pre-cogs see Lamar planning out the murder? They saw other aspects not directly related to the murder, like the old woman laughing. Since Lamar put it all in motion, it would stand to reason they'd see him plotting everything behind the scenes, and that would also come through in the vision.

[–] karlhinze 9 years ago

Because Anderton committed the murder. There is nothing to suggest that the precogs see who staged the murders. It's a similar situation with the original murder of Anne Lively in that the John Doe committed the murder, despite the fact that it was Burgess who planned it. The fact that it was premeditated is another issue that doesn't sit right entirely with a lot of viewers. Personally I think the murder should have been a red ball, but one explanation for the brown ball is that the murder was premeditated by somebody else. It's not one that I'm satisfied with, but it's the only way the film can work. And judging by the other murders, I also don't think that the precogs would see much more than a few minutes before each murder.

Could it be possible that Burgess set up the system in such a way that somebody who sets up somebody else gets away with it? After all, it worked for him.

Also, if the precogs see Lamar as the perpetrator, that would ruin the film. 

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[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] yurenchu 9 years ago

Well, as long as Precrime manages to catch the perpetrators every time before they actually commit the killing, I'd say it would be very effective; although possibly not really fair to the perpetrator side (but which common citizen in this delusive totalitarian distopia would care about the perpetrator's side anyway?).

The movie did mention that pre-meditated (pre)murder rate in the city was brought down to zero.

By the way, as evidenced from the scenes at the mall, contrary to Precrime Propaganda the precogs were talented enough to predict anything; it's just that the Precrime Department is only interested in murders, because resolving them (in the flawed way that has been addressed in your post) works like a clear-cut case and is a cheap and easy way to make the populace instantly happy; so the Precrime Department only evokes and filters those previsions that are connected to a murder.

______
Joe Satriani - "Always With Me, Always With You"
http://youtu.be/VI57QHL6ge0

[–] karlhinze 9 years ago

By the way, as evidenced from the scenes at the mall, contrary to Precrime Propaganda the precogs were talented enough to predict anything

Is that true, though? I get that the mall scene backs you up on your theory, but it's the only thing that directly goes against what you call "propaganda". To me, the mall scene is a bit of a weak point in the film - possibly added solely to create excitement and tension - and I don't think it can be explained by saying that the precogs can see everything. It's not explained why, if they can see everything, they only have visions of murders. Again, I understand what you're saying about filtering the pre-visions, but you're really making an assumption there, albeit a fair one. How do they filter them? Who filters them, and who hides it from the likes of Jeff, Fletcher and Anderton, who all appear to believe that they can only see murders, as evidenced in the scene where they meet Danny Witwer?

What would be the benefit of not predicting other crimes? Why wouldn't it be anything but a good thing to stop rapes, assaults, torture, paedophilia etc? Or is it that the precogs would have to work overtime? Staff working overtime shouldn't be an issue as hiring more police officers shouldn't be a problem, simply because they could re-deploy officers who investigate crimes other than murder already.

So many points on the matter, and I don't flat out disagree with you because your theories do make sense. But it's certainly up for debate.

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[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] 9 years ago

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[–] norman-dostal 9 years ago

They do predict rapes. There's a commercial where a woman says "I could have been raped"

[–] karlhinze 9 years ago

That's not strictly true. They don't predict rapes per se. Some people think that line of the film is actually flawed. My take is that she could have been raped and killed.

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[–] Painbow 9 years ago

And in the process of possibly being raped then killed... the rape is what concerned her?



[–] karlhinze 9 years ago

And in the process of possibly being raped then killed... the rape is what concerned her?

The scene in question focuses on propaganda - it's an advert created by pre-crime to try and convince people that pre-crime should go national. It's very likely that they weren't genuine experiences - merely stories told by actors. And during the advert we hear a few examples of how people were saved by pre-crime. Using different examples merely added drama. It would have been far less effective if they all just stood there saying: "I could have been killed".

So in answer to your question, no. They were making a point.

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[–] kobrakai1 9 years ago

There's a line of dialoge near the begininng where John says something like
"The precogs don't see what you intend to do. Only what you WILL do."
So maybe that explains away that issue. They can't see far enough to see if there were conspiracies to commit the crime. Only the actual physical perpetrator of the crime

[–] Painbow 9 years ago

Because Anderton committed the murder. There is nothing to suggest that the precogs see who staged the murders.

Actually there is. The film opens by essentially suggesting that premeditated murder no longer happens because pre-crime officers will turn up WAY before you commit it and arrest you. There's a line about crimes of passion being the only murders that happen now ("people have gotten the message").

The film has its cake and eats it. The precogs see premeditated murder so early that people simply don't do it anymore (and it's virtually non-existant) yet the film follows a thread that suggests seeing premeditated murder isn't as simple as that and has limitations. It also suggests that murder is only seen because of the emotional intensity involved yet most premeditated murders contain no intense emotional involvement.

[–] karlhinze 9 years ago

Sorry, what part of what you said suggests that the precogs do see who staged the murders?

Absolutely none of it. You, Sir, are doing a very good job at portraying yourself as an absolute clown on this board. Keep it coming, it's funny! 

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