Why would she actually bring the poison into the room and add it to the soup there? Doesn't make sense.
shareTo condense time and showing the audience the mom was poisoning her and she didn't know it was being filmed.
shareTo condense time and showing the audience the mom was poisoning her and she didn't know it was being filmed.
I think she was the stepmother, but a better question is, why would she wear a red dress and makeup in a funeral?
shareThe movie never suggests it's her step-mother. This actually seems to be a case of Münchhausen-by-proxy, which means she makes her child sick for the attention. Which would also explain her wearing a red dress and make-up at a funeral.
shareI said "I think", not "the movie suggests".
This actually seems to be a case of Münchhausen-by-proxy
I'm fully aware of what you said. I simply think you're wrong for thinking that, as the movie never suggests it.
Which makes it even worse as a movie.
Because something that should be clear from the visuals requires an external justification or explanation.
shareBecause something that should be clear from the visuals requires an external justification or explanation.
And don't the visuals make clear that she's the child's mother?
If she was the stepmother, the movie would've made it clear, visually or verbally.
And there are actually subtle hints that the mother's motive is Münchhausen-by-proxy
Nope. They don't make it clear if she's the biological mother or the stepmother. I always assumed she was the stepmother, as there was no explication given to why the biological mother would do that.
Assuming the scene were competently made, which is the whole point. The movie doesn't make it clear either way, that's the problem. It's poor film making, pure and simple.
Sorry, but that's not how film making works. How many spectators know what that is? You can't introduce something complicated like that in a film without establishing it before in some way.
If she's the biological mother and was keeping the daughter sick over Münchausen syndrome by proxy, all they had to do was having the psychotherapist character mumble a few words about that
If she's the stepmother and was murdering the children, it doesn't make sense for her to draw attention to herself wearing red and makeup in the funeral. She should be playing her act and grieving.
As mothers actually do murder their children in real life, no explanation has to be given. It just happens, you don't even have to know what Münchausen-by-proxy is.
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Yes that is why women got away with MBP for so long, ie the average american could not believe the "caring mother" as depicted in Hollywood movies could DO that.
Since the small f feminist takeover of 1970 it is MEN who have been demonised and the whole of the DVIndustry depends on that myth to keep the govt funding going, so MBP was always covered up BY the Industry.
This movie moves on FROM that to show that a far bigger abuse of the FLIndustry is to use children of divorce as guinea pigs for drug experiments and we saw the result up front with Vincent.
Then Night shows us the identical Shrink Reports for Vincent and Cole [and for the super dumb he even circles the key words] done 10 years apart and Cole's report is already DONE before the shrink has "met" him.
The movie then becomes a case of a dead shrink trying to come to terms with his conscience of what his Industry does to young boys who become victims purely because their parents divorce.
http://www.kindleflippages.com/ablog/
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You, my friend, are reading way too much into this. Lol.
shareWould you stop projecting? You sound like one of the cult members in "Red State".
shareTotally agree with everything you said and totally disagree with everything the other guy said. Lol
shareOh dear. Such a irritating post. Everything doesn't have to be stated in movies in the form of somebody actually saying the words "munchausen by proxy". It's pretty clear whats going on during that part of the movie - the mother was suffering from it or something close to that. And even though the diagnoses isn't spelled out by some psychologist in that scene, most people who are somewhat "well-informed/educated" knows what that underlying issue was.
And as Stratego said: the woman who poisoned Kyra was her mother - until told otherwise. Why are you suggesting that it's Kyras stepmother when haven't seen anything that's been pointing towards that? So if you just making up story lines in your head, then Bruce Willis character must be Kyra's stepmother too, cause the movie wasn't saying that he wasn't.
Thanks for your opinion.
shareShe wasn't a stepmother, but I for some reason had thought she was too at first!
Reasons for the red dress:
1. Character-wise, it was solely to get attention. This woman was mentally ill; she craved attention so badly she was killing her children slowly just to get it.
2. Again, character-wise, its showing she has no respect for the death of her own daughter.
3. Director M. Night used red to indicate something or someone that is 'involved' with the turmoil of the film and/or the dead.
I'd say this cloud is Cumulo Nimbus.
Didn't he discover America?
Penfold, shush.
Sure, but that's your post-hoc conclusion. I'm not saying the scene doesn't make logical sense in some way if you try to decipher it and add the information that's missing. I'm saying there's no setup for the spectators to understand what's going on. This is not Primer, this is a blockbuster, aimed at teenagers and young adults.
2. Again, character-wise, its showing she has no respect for the death of her own daughter.
Um....what??
Trying to murder your daughter....slowly no less....sure doesn't sound respectful to me.
I'd say this cloud is Cumulo Nimbus.
Didn't he discover America?
Penfold, shush.
I agree, fiatlux, there's definitely a set-up. We see the the mother poison her daughter, the father points out she's been keeping her sick all these years and then it makes perfect sense why she's dressed like that at the funeral of her own daughter.
shareShe's not deceptive? Not disrespectful?
Um... She was poisoning her children. She killed them.
Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy. Usually it is mothers with this. Deliberately sickening their child gains them sympathy and attention, as did wearing the red dress and lipstick. Notice that somebody in the living room after the funeral mentioned the younger daughter was beginning to get sick too, so the mother was doing the same thing to her. Look up the condition.
shareExactly. My mother has Munchausen's Syndrome - she gets attention by being sick herself - and she got the "by proxy" part when I was diagnosed with breast cancer at the age of thirty-five. She didn't cause my illness, but she got TONS of attention by telling anyone who would listen about every detail of my illness and every side effect of the treatment. It was a monumental invasion of my privacy, but as long as she got attention, it was worth it (to her). The result? I no longer tell her anything significant about my life.
Munchausen's is an aspect of narcissism. The narcissist's need for attention outweighs anything else.
"You're so analytical! Sometimes you just have to let art... flow... over you." The Big Chill
Sorry to hear that. Hope you're doing okay now.
shareThank you for your concern - I am doing fine, I am a 25 year survivor! Advances in medical science have given me more life than I could have ever expected.
My mother hasn't changed, but fortunately, with my added years, at least I understand her better and I am better at not letting it bother me so much. I still have to maintain a boundary with her and it has never been easy.
I was very fortunate to have a wonderful father.
"You're so analytical! Sometimes you just have to let art... flow... over you." The Big Chill
That's great! You must be quite an amazing and strong woman for making it through all of this!
shareThank you, but much of the credit goes to my husband, who showed me real strength and courage, having survived a childhood that makes mine look like a walk in the park.
"You're so analytical! Sometimes you just have to let art... flow... over you." The Big Chill
Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy. Usually it is mothers with this. Deliberately sickening their child gains them sympathy and attention, as did wearing the red dress and lipstick. Notice that somebody in the living room after the funeral mentioned the younger daughter was beginning to get sick too, so the mother was doing the same thing to her. Look up the condition.
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That is a good point. I did not notice that. i will re-watch it now.
shareYou mean, instead of adding it in the kitchen? Maybe there was someone downstairs who could've seen her or maybe she kept the cleaning supplies in a closet in the hallway upstairs.
shareWhy would she actually bring the poison into the room
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You need to understand the politics of film making from govt and the ways directors get around them.
In Falling Down MBP was a closely guarded secret so they had to go very very softly with Prendergast saying like "but she was a big girl" and showing Tuesday gal as demanding attention etc etc.
But movie paved the way for the UNCOVERING of the lie and all of a sudden the govt did a flip and CNN etc were allowed to do horror stories on MBP.
So Night is APPLAUDING that movie by showing MBP out IN THE OPEN, but at the same time going softly softly on Zoloft etc which govt would not allow him to criticize openly because of govt close association with BigPharma.
But 15 years later we still have high school massacres/suicides and pilots driving planes into mountains - all because of Zoloft.
Big difference is BigPharma means billions to govt while MBP was simply a matter of a few female votes.
http://www.kindleflippages.com/ablog/
Why would she actually bring the poison into the room and add it to the soup there? Doesn't make sense.
I can't believe how ridiculous this thread got. The mother poisoned her eldest daughter for years to keep her sick thus gaining sympathy and attention for being a dedicated/burdened caretaker. It was said that Kyra saw at least 6 doctors, so Kyra's illness was well known in that family's social circle. The mother clearly orchestrated all of that. And then the daughter died. And presumably, the mother started poisoning the younger daughter as a guest mentioned that she too was getting sick. Why does it matter if the mother is biologically related to the children? Her motives were still the same.
share
I can't believe how ridiculous this thread got. The mother poisoned her eldest daughter for years to keep her sick thus gaining sympathy and attention for being a dedicated/burdened caretaker.
Maybe she didn't normally mix the poison in the bedroom, maybe she usually did it in the kitchen.
But this one time the daughter left the camera on, she managed to catch the mother in the act.
~ I'm a 21st century man and I don't wanna be here.
Do putting the poison in the soup, say, in the kitchen - that does make sense?
I don't understand - why does it make more (or less) sense where she does it? Maybe you mean why is she doing it so close where the girl might see what she's doing?
Doing it right there is where she's pretty isolated from everyone else. She would have only the girl to hide the act from, which was seemingly pretty simple.