when i heard of the current situation in iraq involving the situation in Haditha where US marines opened fire and killed more than 20 civillians including women and children, i thought i was having deja vu... wasnt this a movie??? I remembered a film i saw called rules of engagement in which the same thing happened... it was a really terrible movie in which tommy lee jones and samuel l jackson chewed up as much scenery as possible and the justification for the ruthless killings seemed to be "a soldiers gotta do what a soldiers gotta do." I specifically remember a part where it showed a child no more than 10 years old holding up a gun and shooting it at the embassy. This specific part and the scene at the end where the vietnamese soldier salutes samuel l jackson is ludicrous. of course in the movie, the "honorable" soldier got off. However i want to see if the same thing happens in real life. If life is going to imitate art. early reports said that these soldiers murdered civilians because one of their own was killed, but now the soldiers are saying that shots were coming from inside the building... sound familiar??
You ever hear of Innocent until proven guilty? guess not
Stop supporting terrorist you jerk.
If and when they go to trial and if they are found guilty then YES, Lock them up and throw away the key. they are animals for doing it. UNTIL then, They are to be considered innocent until proven guilty
Stop trying them in the court of idiotic opinion
Sir, Put the mouse down slowly and step away from the keyboard!
Please get your facts straight before expressing an opinion.
1) The Marines and Army are similar, but different
2) Haditha had nothing to do with rape. A convoy of Marine humvees was hit by a roadside bomb, whose detonator (person) was in one of the nearby houses. The Marines dismounted. At that point, the story of the Marines involved and the story of the local Muslims differ. The Marines say they were fired upon from the houses they eventually entered (look at a map of the area, say from a Time magazine, and the houses were specifically entered while others were skipped, suggesting that the Marines' story is accurate). The locals say there were no shots and the Marines went on a blind rampage, shoving women and children into closets and executing them. The credibility of Muslim insurgents is very shaky, as they are known for twisting events, altering evidence, and propagandizing the events. However, I am not going to pass judgment on the locals, as I do believe it is possible for a few infantrymen to lose their heads, even among the Marines, who are known for composure in combat (regardless of what some media/movie outlets might have you believe). It is difficult to say exactly what happened, and I will have to withhold my judgment until the situation has been further studied. At the moment, I believe the actual sequence of events lies somewhere in the middle.
3) The rape of a "kid" (teenager under 18) was I think done by an Army soldier, not a Marine, but I could be mistaken. It is indeed a very horrible incident, regardless of branch of military. As a side note, this accusation is coming from a people who treat women as property, allow men to marry multiple wives, allow men to beat their wives, and whose infallible Prophet had a 9-year old among his wives. This only makes the situation hypocritical, not excusable, as the US serviceman should hold himself to a higher standard, and he should be punished to the maximum extent of the law if he is convicted.
4) Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo are nothing but exaggerations by the liberals in the press. The "human-rights violations" at Abu Ghraib are less than you would see in college fraternity initiations and football team hazings. Since it has been turned over to the Iraqis, the detainees at Abu Ghraib are actually trying to get the Americans back. A few naked guys doing a cheerleader pyramid might seem bad to the coddled American press, but Islamic law and brutality to criminals is far, FAR worse. Guantanamo can scarcely be called in violation of "human rights" because the worst that happens there is small cells (solitary confinment in US prisons?), lousy meals (go to a college cafeteria :-P ), and techniques like sleep deprivation, loud music, and bright lights. Treating suspected terrorists like that somewhat pales when compared to the beheadings, torture (electric shock, cutting with knives, etc), and the like that is done to kidnapped civilians by the enemy. Additionally, most (not all) of the detainees at Guantanamo are NOT covered by Geneva Conventions for a number of reasons, the first being that they are not uniformed military, but participating in combat and terror attacks in civlian clothes, second because they do not represent a country or government but a religious or paramilitary group, thirdly because Geneva Conventions only apply when countries who have signed the Convention fight each other. It would help if you actually read the sections of Geneva that applied to prisoner treatment.
CGSailor- Misinterpreted your words due to the fact that I took the statement to which you were replying as a blanket indictment of rape and torture by military personnel, whereas you took it as a direct indictment of those involved in the Abu Ghraib scandal (which it probably is, my fault for not reading carefully). So I apologize for being a schmuck, even though it was unintentional. Incidentally, you should apologize for getting personal, but I'm not going to teach you sportsmanship if your parents didn't.
Correct, the rape and murder of the girl's family did not occur at Haditha - it was an entirely separate incident, and is a separate case.
Actually, there are three major cases going on - there's the Haditha massacre, then there's the Hamdania murder involving the alleged murder of the Iraqi informant, and there's also rape of the Iraqi girl that took place in Mahmudiya. Three separate cases, and many people get them confused.
The only person I know of who INTENTIONALLY confuses the three is Michael Savage, in his attempts to raise money for the defense of the soldiers involved in the Hamdania incident(the Iraqi informant murder). The reason is simple: Haditha is the only one the three incidents that began with an actual firefight, and Savage believes the public will be more sympathetic to the soldiers involved in the Hamdania incident if they confuse it with Haditha.
The Haditha matter has yet to go to trial, so we won't know all the facts until it's over.
This specific part and the scene at the end where the vietnamese soldier salutes samuel l jackson is ludicrous.
QUESTION: Why is that Ludicrous? You think it is unrealistic for two opposing soldiers to show respect to each other, To acknowledge that each one is a good man doing their duty, even if for opposite sides?
Well Guess what bub. it does happen in real life http://www.lzxray.com/Lt_Gen_An.htm Hal Moore and Nguyen An meeting at the site of the "Battle of Ia Drang Vally" This is the Battle depicted in the Movie "We Were Soldiers"
Sir, Put the mouse down slowly and step away from the keyboard! reply share
themill, Stop taking my statement out of context you schmuck.
Condemning rape and murder has nothing to do with supporting terrorist, and I never said it did. you are twisting my words.
But you people are condemning the soldiers of commiting those acts before they have in fact been found guilty of it. "Innocent until proven guilty" ever hear of that? no? well its the founding principle of our justice system!
If the Soldiers have in fact commited the crime, then I am all for hanging them from a tall tree with a short rope.
BUT UNTIL THEY HAVE BEEN FOUND GUILTY... You jerkoffs need to stop acting as if they are guilty and stop making statements claiming they are. It is THOSE statements that is supporting terorists for all you are doing is ranting and raving against our military and undermining and eroding the faith in an orginization dedicated to protecting YOUR lives and freedom (at the cost of laying down their own lives if necessary). It is THOSE statements that are bolstering the terrorists side and destroying our side.
Sir, Put the mouse down slowly and step away from the keyboard!
if you watched somebody shooting another person, you would probably consider him innocent until sentenced by a court?
would you also defend blowing up a whole house and killing a large number of innocent people, just because a killer MIGHT be hiding inside? i should not be surprised, however, if you defended bombing the sh!t out of Afghanistan because Bin Laden might have been hiding there (not to say a lot about weapons of mass destruction).
the ignorance of americans today seems similar to that of the soviet population 20 years ago, but they at least had the excuse of not having access to international (and fairly unbiased) news.
Where you there? Did you see what happened? NO! So don't you dare lecture me.
Those soldiers on trial were there, they did see what happened, and so far there's been nothing said about the so called Haditha Massacre by your so call unbiased press. All I've heard is that civilians were killed. What were they killed by? Were was the wound? What calibre bullet was it if they were shot? Until I hear answers to those questions, I believe the Marines are innocent until proven guilty.
How would you like it if someone accused you of killing your neighbor and the whole neighborhood called for your execution before you even had a chance to defend yourself? That's what people like you are doing to these Marines.
Who ever said the Marines won't get a fair trail? That's exactly what they're getting and, by the way, it's the U.S. military that's pressing the charges. I'm constantly hearing about them being "tried by the press". Well, the press doesn't have the power to try, or convict, anyone. The the only ones here who won't be getting a trial are the ones who were killed at Haditha.
In the film, soldiers open fire at crowd in which the people clearly have guns. The murdered civilians in Haditha were unarmed. There was a massacre. And yes, the charged marines are innocent until proven guilty. But, I must say, it does not look good. As far as the rape and murder case involving that Iraqi girl and her family, one of the soldiers involved has already plead guilty, and has testified how he and the members of his platoon took turns raping the girl, then set her body ablaze with kerosene to cover up the crime. Oh, and they wasted the rest of her family as well.
But any parallels between this film and the massacre at Haditha are cursory at best. Now, I'm sure one could write an entire essay about the effects of Abu Ghraib on contemporary horror cinema. The real problem with "Rules of Engagement" was it had that whole clunky plot device of the videotape. Roger Ebert, if recall, referred to it as an example of the Idiot Plot. It is not my favorite Friedkin picture. That would be "Sorcerer".