MovieChat Forums > Charmed (1998) Discussion > Is Season 4-8 an alternate universe?

Is Season 4-8 an alternate universe?

posted 8 years ago by JustEs
25 replies | jump to latest

Looking through old posts at another site, trying to find my answer to one of these threads led me to this one. Very curious to see what you guys think.

The OP wrote:

In 'All Hell Breaks Loose' Piper is the one who is shot and killed. Had Tempus and the Source not rewound time, Prue and Phoebe would've been the ones to discover Paige and reconstitute the Power of Three. So, the Source's time-meddling actually saved Piper's skin, really. Was she "meant" to die and did the time-rewind create a new timeline - the one in which Prue died?

Perhaps there is also a timeline out there in which Phoebe and Cole were killed by the Source as well...

I replied:

This reminds me of a post I saw at a different site:

FUTURE PHOEBE: I knew you'd come here sooner or later.
PHOEBE: Really? How's that?
FUTURE PHOEBE: Well, because six years ago, I was you standing there talking to me.
(Hulkus Pocus)

COOP: Now, come on. How you're gonna have that future child that you were promised unless you find love first, right?
PHOEBE: (hopeful) That's still possible?
COOP: Not only is it possible, it's destined. We are gonna have to hurry.
(Engaged and Confused)

LEO: All right, hold on, I don’t understand how you know all this stuff, and how did you know we would come?
OLD LEO: Because fifty years ago, we were sitting there, where you’re sitting, talking to our future selves.
(Forever Charmed)

Phoebe is going to be talking to her past self after six years and Piper and Leo are going to end up talking to their past selves after fifty years. And Phoebe has a daughter who is destined.

Seeing if someone is destined to die you can't fight death or destiny(unless you make a deal like Piper did) then doesn't it apply to those destined to time travel or destined to be born?

Wouldn't that mean that whatever Billie and Christy or any demon tries, their plans would always ultimately fail because Phoebe was supposed to live because her daughter is supposed to live or because Piper and Leo are meant to be together so they could meet their past selves and tell them how they met their futures selves fifty years ago and so on ...

Of course that would mean Piper was always meant to make a deal to save Leo.

So how is it a fair battle or even a battle when it's already destined who will live, who will time travel, who will be born?
Here's how I replied:

Only if you don't think that each of those time travels sets up a separate timeline with its own adjusted destiny, because they always had the choice to fulfill that destiny or not.

Otherwise Chris' original timeline never would've happened, or Old Piper never would've been with Old Leo when Leo and Piper went time-travelling since Piper died when Chris was 14.

Ditto for the 'Morality Bites' timeline where they were divorced, Prue was still alive and Phoebe burnt.

Obviously in neither of those timelines were they destined to win.

Only by having made the choices they did - including Chris coming back, (otherwise Leo never would've become an Elder since Chris is the one who set him up to become one so Leo wasn't one in Chris' future, hence why Leo was the most unElderly Elder we've ever seen - he may have thought so at the time, but becoming an Elder was never his destiny in any timeline) setting Leo up to become an Avatar and then a human so that he could be frozen so Piper would feel the need to fight - were they destined to win.

All of this is also true for Phoebe and for Paige, and for that matter, for Prue. Their destinies changed as they made different decisions that put them into different timelines with different destinies. The options are endless.

By the way, I've always believed that S4-8 was an alternate timeline - in the original one, all three originals survive, Paige doesn't exist, the sisters vanquish the Source with no need to use the Hollow so Cole never becomes the Source or goes crazy or is vanquished and Wyatt is Melinda, Piper and Leo's only child who's a witch but has no powers - the powers culminated with the Charmed Ones and the death of the Source of All Evil, after which the sisters took the Angel of Destiny up on his offer and gave up their powers, the end of their story as the Charmed Ones.

They did this because their Angel of Destiny didn't lie to them - he told them that if they decided to keep their powers, Piper would have a son who was the Twice-Blessed Child and the rest of their lives would be devoted to protecting him rather than protecting innocents, so the sisters decided to give up their powers and live normal lives - and when they made those choices, the Angel made Leo and Cole mortal, too, with the world believing that Cole had always been a lawyer and Leo a doctor with none of the extras that magic added - Cole and Leo were also given substitute memories so they think they're the same age as the sisters and have never been anything but human, which match the substitute memories the sisters have been given. Just like at the beginning, they were all taken off Evil's radar and never bothered by magical baddies again, completely forgetting everything that happened in S1-3.

So?? What do you guys think?

[–] persen1 8 years ago

Well it was suggested in season 6's It's a Bad, Bad, Bad, Bad World, that in Charmed there exist a multiverse.
Gideon just happened to open a portal to one of the evil universes, where The Charmed Ones are villains and the demons turn out to be the good guys.

So with that said, there could even be an alternate universe, where Prue is actually still alive and they never actually met Paige.
There could even be one, where the sisters never became The Charmed Ones and because of this, never discovered magic.

[–] Larsii90 8 years ago

.... but Charmed follows one universe and timeline, so it was never intended in any way shape or form that Charmed post Prue was an alternate reality :P I know you know this, but that is us fans stretching it a little too far to deal with the fact that the show was just a lot better with Prue (although I also really like season 4), so we wanna keep watching and make excuses for all the ridiculous stuff that happens eventually. That being said, I try to stop after S4 because it's actually better to just consider that the series finale even tho there are some loose ends, than ti suffer all the way to Forever Charmed

[–] FireWave 8 years ago

Who are we? I am sorry but I, for example actually enjoy seasons 4-7. We should speak for ourselves, especially when we are expressing an opinion. 😃

As for the question in title of this thread. I don't think seasons 4-8 are alternate universe. All 8 seasons are stretched in one single timeline. Of course, everyone can not accept this but like it or not, it is one universe.

[–] Larsii90 8 years ago

Agree 100% I am within the majority with my own opinion, but everyone is entitled to theirs?

[–] Larsii90 8 years ago

Sorry my smiley turned in to a question mark :P

[–] JustEs 8 years ago

Hehehehe, that's okay.

And you're absolutely right - everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Mine is usually in the minority, but I like to think that it helps others think.

Besides, if everyone agreed, threads would be very, very short.

If I ever seem to make it seem like I *don't* think others should be allowed their own opinion, I apologize.

[–] JustEs 8 years ago

But do they just follow a single timeline???

They might think so; even the Elders might think so.

I don't.

It's the only thing that will explain all of the inconsistencies.

[–] Larsii90 8 years ago

Yes. All the inconsistencies comes from bad writing, and its pretty amazing how they managed to F up this series. Pardon my friends. I enjoy many episodes from S5-7 as well, but overall the first half of the series is much stronger because they had focus on the right things: sisterhood, family, and their own interpritation of wicca

[–] The_Stranggler 8 years ago

Hear hear

[–] JustEs 8 years ago

👍Agreed completely totally!

[–] gzv969 8 years ago

Season 4 -8 is not an alternate universe but a number of alternate timelines, There is a difference. In it's a bad bad bad world evil/good Leo, phoebe and Paige are alternate universes, centenial charmed world that cole created is and alternate universe. But then rewinding or reversing time or time traveling to the past or navigating or meandering through time (e.g using coups ring) in the timeline and re-living it from the time one travelled to in such a manner that changes the original future is creating an alternate timeline. The two times Tempus rewound time, Piper traveling back in the portal in A Witch In Time or chris traveling back are all times they created alternate timelines.

So to explain future phoebe continuing to see past phoebe in the park or future Leo and Piper seeing past Leo and Piper, are all just for that timeline they were currently in that haddnt been further changed or messed with via time travel. Meaning as long as they didn't travel back in time again and alter the past, that would be what would continue to happen. Future Leo, Piper and phoebe encountering their past selves. And even though Piper and Leo changed the timeline in Forever Charmed by getting rid of the hollow, because they did it using coops ring, future Piper and Leo will continue to see past Leo and Piper. The only way that could ever change is if someone travelled back in time and changed very key events leading up to the final battle. Like if the demon Christy and Billie were working with succeeded is getting Billie to travel back in time and change things.

Head aching

[–] justinmacri2032 8 years ago

i think all season 1 is the real timeline and it changed from when they went to that 2009 time line. My think is i know Time travel and talking about it is tricky. OK lets say this lets say you had a friend right things are well you go back in time fix a mistake it changes your friends life. I think what happen is to Pure something with the time line changed for her to be part of Team charmed and did something to the reality. Charmed was supposed to be a 3 5 season show but the time line kept doing things it made it longer so this topic is right it is a new charmed timeline while Pure is the real time line.

Bond James Bond

[–] Michelle_89 8 years ago

I don't think there are any "real" timelines. I think every possible path of every story exists somewhere, and they're all as legitimate as the others. For instance, there's a timeline where they never meet Paige and Prue never dies, and it is just as real as a timeline where the opposite is true. The options are limitless. There's are timelines where Phoebe is the oldest, Piper never has kids, Paige is evil, Prue's the flighty one, and on and on. What we saw on the show was one option of many, many possibilities.

[–] justinmacri2032 8 years ago

who knows.

Bond James Bond

[–] SeleneGoddess 8 years ago

To be honest, I'm very tired and didn't really read this yet. I just wanted to post my reactions to reading the subject line.

It kind of ties into your whole "Forever-Charmed-Is-Piper's-Dream-As-She-Dies-After-The-Explosion" kind of thing.

What if Piper DOES die in "All Hell Breaks Loose" and season 4-8 are her in limbo land with Phoebe? Say the Source's demons actually manage to kill Phoebe in the Underworld before Cole can help her escape, hence her being in limbo with Piper, and Prue is actually moving on in the realm of the living? Then when Prue dies 5 years later, the Charmed Ones can truly move on and that's where "Forever Charmed" comes in. Maybe Paige is simply a Reaper or an Angel who spends the five years gaining Piper and Phoebe's trust so when Prue dies, they convince her to immediately trust Paige and don't continue on in limbo but finally move on to the afterlife.

Sorry if not making much sense. As I said, very tired. Long day.

Sometimes you have to stop trying to see the good in people that isn't there.

[–] Michelle_89 8 years ago

SeleneGoddess, that's incredibly sad yet also very captivating. So in your idea, Piper and Phoebe die, yet the bond between the three sisters is so strong that they truly can't be apart until Prue herself dies and joins them.

As far as how Paige fits into that, it makes sense, as her existence is entirely possible, but unlikely. A fourth sister might very well have broken the Power of Three's possibility of ever existing, even if everyone's powers were bound at the time. And I know that in the show during P3H30 that Paige didn't exist yet, but just speaking in terms of the story, I don't think Sam would have not told them about their sister. Or at least mentioned that he had a daughter he watched over as well, without mentioning she was related to the Halliwell sisters. I know part of it is that the show had to come up with a quick solution (to a problem they created, but whatever), and that's why the existence of Paige and her introduction feels somewhat disjointed and confusing, but it makes sense for your theory as well.

In your theory, since Prue is the one who appears to Piper and Phoebe to have died, does that mean Cole and Leo die as well, and Prue goes on surviving for five more years with no one but perhaps Darryl? This whole thing is a very intriguing theory, and I'd love to hear people's speculations about it.

[–] SeleneGoddess 8 years ago

I could see Cole being dead as well, failing to save Phoebe could only mean he died with her, but Leo is a whitelighter. Aside from falling in love with Piper, he never really broke the rules so maybe he was just able to transport between limbo and where Prue was. He couldn't tell Prue he was communicating with her dead sisters and he couldn't tell Piper and Phoebe that they were really dead because that would destroy the point of limbo, which I figure is a place to accept your own death through a journey.

Sometimes you have to stop trying to see the good in people that isn't there.

[–] JustEs 8 years ago

Selene Goddess, first it's FANTASTIC to have you back, and, second, although your idea isn't exactly what I had in mind, I LOVE it even more than my own!

You might have finally figured out what truly happened in Charmed!

[–] SeleneGoddess 8 years ago

Thank you! Sorry it's been so long. Life hasn't been on the up and up but I'm getting there.

I'm glad you like the idea! I should come up with these theories half-asleep more often 

Sometimes you have to stop trying to see the good in people that isn't there.

[–] JustEs 8 years ago

 My friends and I think we come up with our best ideas either when we're half-asleep or drunk!

[–] SeleneGoddess 8 years ago

I actually have a folder saved to my tablet that says, "drunken ideas" where I somehow know to save anything I come up with!

Sometimes you have to stop trying to see the good in people that isn't there.

[–] Michelle_89 8 years ago

Your theory would explain perfectly why Piper and Phoebe could never summon Prue. Not because she was dead, but because she was alive. And Patty and Grams would have told them it was because they hadn't yet gotten over her death, when in reality, by successfully summoning Prue, they would have killed her.

It also makes sense that, in my opinion, the characters of Piper and Phoebe got progressively worse and things on the show became less related to its original concept. It was because they were overstaying their welcome in limbo.

[–] SeleneGoddess 8 years ago

Exactly! They were growing tired of the same old, same old so they reacted negatively. They were growing tired of waiting for Prue and they didn't even know it because if they did, they wouldn't wish for her to die just so they could move on.

Sometimes you have to stop trying to see the good in people that isn't there.

[–] Michelle_89 8 years ago

This is probably the best theory of seasons 4-8 that I've yet heard. I was totally against ever watching the last four seasons ever again, but I just may now with this new idea in mind.

In thinking a bit more about it, it would then be that Cole moved on from limbo in season five because he accepted his death. I guess Leo chose to move on with Piper at the end as well.

And if you think about it, a lot of the things that happened in the latter seasons were the opposite of what it seemed like should happen. For instance, Piper had a boy instead of a girl. Phoebe, the screw-up sister, became rich at her successful career. Phoebe risked her life to save Cole at the end of season three, and then ended up eventually killing him.

And I guess the very end, with Piper telling her granddaughter their story and implying that their family stretched on throughout time, was her way of comforting herself enough to let go.

[–] kem7696 8 years ago

Honestly I think this is just an excuse people came up with who hated S4-8.