its not flawed reasoning. its just working with what you have. its what theyve done. its fact. to argue that, just makes you be in complete denial.
How can the series be in continuity of the film when the character of Duncan, Richie, Amanda, Methos, the four Horsemen and all the other immortals couldn't exist. Connor won the Prize, end of story.
because its not. the film is what is in continuity with the tv series. that is the only way to acknowledge it. the tv series is expanding the universe that the original film established. the tv series is what took the events of the first film and built upon them. hence why it is labeled as a 'spin-off'. it is not a sequel to the first film. it is a spin-off of the first film.
Yes, they wrote themselves in the corner but the fact that they had to retcon the Gathering happening and Connor winning the Prize to make the series work does categorically break continuity. There is no way around it. Abramowitz, Panzer, Davis et al (including fanboys and fangirls) can dance around that fact all they want but the characters established in the series universe does not exist in the films first universe and can not be in continuity.
they didnt necessarily retcon the Gathering , they simply moved it from 1986 to 1992. Connor didnt win the Prize, hence why 100s if not 1000s of immortals existed and still exist in the world of the tv series. the whole point of moving the story to episodic television is to expand and delve deeper into the world they built in the first film.
it doesnt break continuity because it is a spinoff. its not like you watch Highlander 1 and you are required to watch the tv series. thats not how it works. you watch the first film and if you want more swordplay, more immortals, more conflicts,more history, etc... then you watch the tv series. thats its purpose.
you can be all close minded if you want in thinking that the first film can only be included if somehow magically, they CGI Duncan MacLeod and Watchers and so forth into the first film...then thats just being a bit dense.
the events of the first film take place. you have to change the detail of Connor winning the Prize at the end in order to allow for other immortals to exist in the present day. if u dont..then youd have no story. youd have a series about a guy who was immortal once upon a time, but is now just a man...wouldnt work. no one wants to see that. fans want to see immortals fighting to the death, they want flashbacks, they want interesting stories and morality plays.
all they change is that one detail. other events are referenced thru out the course of the tv series. Connor still fought the Kurgan and defeated him. the Watchers were there and witnessed it. they were glad that Connor took out the Kurgan. Fasil lost his head to Connor. Ramirez trained Connor. Connor was friends with Kastagir. Kastagir was the mentor of immortals we see in the tv series. its all connected.
in Endgame it follows with what was established in the first film. he owned an Antique Shop on Hudson Street. he has Rachel as his secretary and adopted daughter. he married Heather, he watched her grow old and die, he buried her and marked the grave with his claymore. he fought the Kurgan on top of the Silvercup logo.
how would the first film not be in continuity if all those events still occur?? if it were not in continuity, none of those events or references would be there.
is it perfect? of course not. they didnt have all this in mind when they made the first film. its called 'world building'.
in the end what they did worked out well seeing as how the tv series became a huge success.
reply
share
ferdinandhudson
11 years ago
The Gathering happened in 1985. The two remaining immortals, Connor and the Kurgan, fought. Connor was the last man standing. There were no more immortals. Retconning, any retconning, breaks continuity.
The only way non-fanboys/fangirls seeing the series after watching the film will see any "continuity" between the two is if they stumble across any of the HL boards and be fed the "Oh, but you have to retcon the ending of the film" line then that reasoning is flawed. Not everyone watching it will bother to go check out those boards unless they get all gung-ho about the show.
As long as the film stands as is then there will never be any true continuity between it and the series.
I enjoy the series for what it is but I really don't buy the continuity "party line" that TPTB are trying their best to push. I see them as separate, alternate universes and they will never share continuity.
---------------------------------
500 years ago on the planet Zeist
reply
share
donutpower
11 years ago
The Gathering happened in 1985. The two remaining immortals, Connor and the Kurgan, fought. Connor was the last man standing. There were no more immortals. Retconning breaks continuity.
in the first film it takes place in the 80s. if you watch the tv series, it takes place in the 90s.
again, you are seeing the first film as needing to have the series events/characters intertwined in order for you to accept it. though if you watch the first film and the tv series together, they do what they can with what they have to bridge the two together. had they stuck with Connor being the main character, they probably would have put a lot of heavy exposition to explain things. what they chose to do was establish the character of Duncan MacLeod and have us follow his activity. the character of Connor MacLeod is still the character of the first film. all his history is still intact.
film series that do retcons tend to change little details here and there in order to introduce a new story. this is no different. doesnt mean that everything that happened in the first film is completely wiped out of existence.
The only way non-fanboys/fangirls seeing the series after watching the film will see any "continuity" between the two is if they stumble across any of the HL boards and be fed the "Oh, but you have to retcon the ending of the film" line then that reasoning is flawed. Not everyone watching it will bother to go check out those boards unless they get all gung-ho about the show.
thats a matter of opinion. back when the tv series first premiered, there was no internet for me to go and look up whats going on. i was able to figure it out all on my own by watching every episode of the series. it all made sense and it fit together. if you read any of the published material on the tv series that was put out by the creators, it makes sense with what they explain. how they go about it is really the only way one can go about it.
As long as the film stands as is then there will never be any true continuity between it and the series.
right. thats why no sequel ever worked without flaws. its why the film as is ,has remained a cult classic .it is one of a kind. the movie was never intended to have a continuation. you cant hold that against the creators. they never would have known the film would have been as beloved as it was over the years.
I enjoy the series for what it is but I really don't buy the continuity "party line" that TPTB are trying their best to push. I see them as separate, alternate universes and they will never share continuity.
you dont buy it. im not trying to convince you otherwise. im telling you this is how they established the two and brought them together. to the producers and writers that stuck through it all, the continuity they chose is: the original film, the tv series, and Endgame.
if you still prefer to deny that and enjoy it the way you believe to be fit. then power to you.
but to say that because you dont "buy it", doesnt mean its not true.
i got nothing more to say on the matter. i own the Complete Watchers Guide that has the creators clarify the matter. Evening at Joe's which is stories by the actors and writers, the novels that are officially in continuity by approval of the producers, and the Watcher Chronicles that further clarify the continuity. to me thats more than enough to accept that the original film has a great importance and involvement in the world they created with the tv show.
reply
share
ferdinandhudson
11 years ago
the character of Connor MacLeod is still the character of the first film. all his history is still intact.
Apart for the fact that Connor won the Prize.
---------------------------------
500 years ago on the planet Zeist
reply
share
kjguhl
11 years ago
There is no doubt that the TV Series universe ignores the ending of the first film. That is well-established. It doesn't mean the ending of the first movie "doesn't count" and that you can't enjoy it on its own. It's germane to itself, and to the first two sequels. The TV Series just had to take a different path in order to exist at all.
reply
share
ferdinandhudson
11 years ago
I'm all fine with that but claiming that the film, as it stands, is in continuity with the series universe is flat out wrong. It is based on it but that is as far as it goes.
---------------------------------
500 years ago on the planet Zeist
reply
share
11 years ago
[deleted]
Jan_El_Senor
11 years ago
This is what you would describe as an alternate universe (see Marvel vs Ultimate Marvel) in that a lot of the same notes have been hit in a story, but with hindsight changes have been made for the sake of future stories.
I think everyone gets this. The fact that they went this route is precisely the problem....
"Success is all luck. Just ask any failure."
reply
share