MovieChat Forums > Dune (2000) Discussion > The Muad'Dib vs The Kwisatz Haderach

The Muad'Dib vs The Kwisatz Haderach


I find it intresting how Dune uses to different expected "messiah" figures.

The Muad'Dib is more a traditional messiah figure, while The Kwisatz Haderach is more like The Übermensch of Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche.

"The Night is Darkest just Before the Dawn

And I promise you, the Dawn IS coming"

reply

Based on... what?

§« El sueño de la razón produce monstruos. »§

reply

The Breeding Program.

"The Night is Darkest just Before the Dawn

And I promise you, the Dawn IS coming"

reply

I thought there was 4:
Mahdi / Voice from the Outer World
Mua'Dib
Kwisatz Haderach
Fulcrum (Paul said he was something more and unexpected than a Kwisatz Haderach)





Doctor Who: "I'm a Time Traveler, I point and laugh at archaeologists."

reply

they were for different people. the mahdi for the fremen, the Kwisatz Haderach for the Bene Geserrit.

reply

Perhaps along with the petroleum allegory and political intrigue, there was a spiritual universalism being illustrated. Neat. God speaks to all in their own languages and in terms of their own imagery.

reply

The Bene Gesserit spread the legend of their Kwisatz Haderach (amongst other Bene Gesserit ideals) by sending out missionaries across the universe, including to the Fremen, that's why there appears to be a spiritual universalism present. Paul and Jessica took advantage of that in order to survive, and Paul, as the Kwisatz Haderach, fit the description of the Lisan al-Gaib or Mahdi of the Fremen because of previous hegemony efforts by the Bene Gesserit.

reply

Don't forget that Muad Dib is the name he choose for himself, his tribal name for the Fremen. The name Muad Dib itself had nothing to do with prophecies or legends, as opposed to the Mahdi and the Kwisatz Haderach.

He went by another name in the books, Usul, so that his tribesmen could refer to him when others were present that weren't supposed to know that he was the Muad Dib. If I got it right, Muad Dib was used only within his own siech while Usul was used whenever they were in contact with other sieches or other folk.

reply

I think it is the other way around. Usul was his name when spoken in the siech. I don't remember why.

reply

Yes, Usul was the name that only the tribe of Sietch Tabr could use, and then, only in sietch, or in the knowledge that no other Fremen of other tribes were present.

Paraphrasing: "This is the name that only we may call you, but no other may presume so."


(Or...to be more humorous)...."You can't use that woid! Only WE can use that woid!" :)

reply