MovieChat Forums > Dune (2000) Discussion > Was Paul and Chani's first born son nece...

Was Paul and Chani's first born son necessary? (SPOILERS)

posted 11 years ago by wallacesawyer
22 replies | jump to latest

Watched this on youtube recently. Pretty good. Never read the book, which I probably could, because my dad has all of them I think. Anyway, I'm not sure about Paul and Chani's first born son. I didn't think they had children until Leto II and Ghanima. How big was the child's role in the book? In this mini-series itself he's a rather useless and tacked on character. He's barely in the film, and he dies. Had they not included him, there'd be no real difference to the outcome of the story or anything else. Filler perhaps?

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[–] gottb4 11 years ago

I honestly don't remember,, it's been so long since I saw this or read the books. But probably character development.

[–] zieveraar2009 11 years ago

and his role is just as small there too.

It might have something to do with the choices Paul is making in order to gain victory. He will sacrifice even his own son, but has no choice as otherwise he'ld lose everything.

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L'amour est mort, vive la haîne!

[–] dani101 11 years ago

In the book the first born son of Chani and Paul has a minor role too- he is mentioned at the end of the book briefly.

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Doctor Who: Human beings. You always manage to find the boring alternative, don't you?

[–] mmw_rocket 11 years ago

Having male heirs in the Dune verse is a big deal. The Padishah Emperor only had daughters (because that is what his Bene Gesserit wife was instructed to do). Jessica was also only supposed to have daughters but she had Paul because she loved the Duke so much. Having male heirs was also a way to secure and legitimatize one's claim to the throne. You see this all the time with medieval European history. Henry VIII didn't just want male heirs because he was a pompous jerk (even though he was a pompous jerk), but he was afraid that not having any would lead to civil war like the Wars of the Roses.

Dune is a story about family along with politics. So Paul and Chani having a son was a big deal. They loved their son liked any parent and having him murdered was horrific for them. Also Chani had a lot of problems getting pregnant after her first child. It's been awhile since I've read the books but I want to say that it took at least 10 years after for the twins to be conceived. This made Paul's claim to the throne more contentious.

[–] wallacesawyer 11 years ago

Also Chani had a lot of problems getting pregnant after her first child. It's been awhile since I've read the books but I want to say that it took at least 10 years after for the twins to be conceived. This made Paul's claim to the throne more contentious.

Chani was being poisoned by Irulan, which prevented pregnancy. It had nothing to do with this first child. I think the boy was only mentioned briefly in the DUNE MESSIAH novel, but I don't think he was mentioned at all in the "CHILDREN OF DUNE" mini-series.

I'd still go as far as to say the child subplot is just filler.

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[–] Ite 9 years ago

You and this whole thread are useless wallacesawyer. What a joke.

[–] wallacesawyer 9 years ago

You and this whole thread are useless wallacesawyer. What a joke.

What do you care, Ite? You don't even like this mini-series.

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[–] Ite 9 years ago

This whole thread makes no sense.

[–] wallacesawyer 9 years ago

This whole thread makes no sense.

I was just explaining that the entire subplot with their son was unnecessary and could have easily been cut from the mini-series without effecting the story. How do you not understand that? Haven't you ever seen a film or mini-series you thought was longer than it really needed to be?

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[–] Ite 9 years ago

You mean the mini series I waited for and enjoyed on it's first airing on Sci Fi channel? You mean the Dune series I loved ever since I saw the 1984 movie from Lynch with Kyle? I am trying to understand you wallace. You were such a enormous fan of the series that you watched it on youtube. You are such a fan of the books that you never knew the first son died. You didn't read about it in the books because you didn't read the books. So you watched Dune on youtube. Paul had a son. The son died. What else needs to be said? Who else cares? So every single character in the Dune series must have a big important part in the series? Paul can't grief over the loss of his first son who died? Should the son be a huge important part of the rest of the Dune series? A child can't die? A character can't just be in the background? What are you trying to ask here? You sound like a 12 year old.

[–] wallacesawyer 9 years ago

You mean the mini series I waited for and enjoyed on it's first airing on Sci Fi channel? You mean the Dune series I loved ever since I saw the 1984 movie from Lynch with Kyle?

So you like the mini-series then. Is that why you're so defensive?

I am trying to understand you wallace. You were such a enormous fan of the series that you watched it on youtube.

I never said I was an enormous fan. I love the "CHILDREN OF DUNE" mini-series, and the Lynch film was also enjoyable, so I figured I might as well watch this one.

You are such a fan of the books that you never knew the first son died. You didn't read about it in the books because you didn't read the books.

I never said I was a fan of the books. I even admitted I hadn't read them. I've read a couple in the years since I started this thread, but eventually lost interest.

So you watched Dune on youtube. Paul had a son. The son died. What else needs to be said?

How about, why bother?

So every single character in the Dune series must have a big important part in the series? Paul can't grief over the loss of his first son who died? Should the son be a huge important part of the rest of the Dune series? A child can't die? A character can't just be in the background? What are you trying to ask here?

As a matter of fact I think the first born son was so unimportant, they might-as-well had left him out of the mini-series completely. It would have no effect whatsoever. It's filler, and just drags the story out.

How are you not understanding that bit of criticism?

You sound like a 12 year old.

No, you do. And I officially believe you're complaining for the sake of complaining. I've seen you do it on numerous other boards.

I'm familiar with your name, but can't quite remember whatever it is I've done to you in the past. Did I hate a movie you love? That's clearly one explanation for your hostile attitude toward me. I see you gave TEXAS CHAINSAW 3D a 10/10 score, which I would never do even if my life depended on it, but to each his own.

If it's something else, then I'm sorry. Though I would like to know what it is I have done to make you hate me so.

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[–] Ite 9 years ago

Sorry Wallace I don't hate you. You are a good poster and make a lot of great posts but this was a stupid thread.

[–] wallacesawyer 9 years ago

Sorry Wallace I don't hate you. You are a good poster and make a lot of great posts

Thank you. And no hard feelings.

but this was a stupid thread.

Very well then. However I consider it constructive criticism.

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[–] Ite 9 years ago

Yeah sorry I get drunk a lot and can be a jerk lol. How do you know when people reply to your old posts? Do you set it so you get emailed?

[–] wallacesawyer 9 years ago

How do you know when people reply to your old posts? Do you set it so you get emailed?

Yes. I never used to, but decided to keep better track of them.

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[–] Ite 9 years ago

Did you see the 1984 movie?

[–] wallacesawyer 9 years ago

Did you see the 1984 movie?

Yes. I enjoyed it. Even saw the extended cut. Which added lots, but cut out some I noticed.

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[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] [email protected] (2042) a year ago

Sheesh, why go berserk over a simple thread asking a question? Some of you guys I swear take these things too much to heart, over a nail prick.

[–] poohtattoo 8 years ago

I know this is old, but I remember why the first son is important. In the books Channi, while watching the final duel of Paul and Feyd, calls Jessica "Mother". Jessica in her inner voice is annoyed with her, but tells herself that Channi has born Paul a child and has therefore earned the right to refer to Jessica by such familiarity. Jessica in turn respects Channi more because she had lost said child and that he basically died in battle as a child soldier. It's more of a subtle way of explaining the relationship of two women who earned their power and status as child bearers, not as official "wives".

At least that's what I took from that from reading the book.

[–] pope_duke 8 years ago

That's a very nice observation and good point.

[–] simbasolo (2) 5 years ago

He is in the book not a tack on character. He represents the innocent that is kill unnecessary in a war.