MovieChat Forums > U-571 (2000) Discussion > Some confusion? And More Pragmatism

Some confusion? And More Pragmatism


I'm starting to lose track of the number of times I hear, "They should have been British sailors, if anything."

Why?

I think we've firmly established that, yes, the British were the ones who captured the Enigma. This movie is incorrect as to the general details: The Americans did not capture the Enigma.

But, nothing like what was depicted in U-571 EVER HAPPENED. It's all complete rubbish! The British didn't pull some espionage trick to get the Enigma...they depth-charged U-110 to the point of catastrophe (HMS Aubretia) and then opened fire on her when she surfaced (HMS Bulldog). Bulldog then swooped in and launched a boarding party to remove the Enigma. Over and done in half-an-hour.

While there is no doubt that the British acted with both wisdom and bravery, and succeeded magnificently, the fact remains that the real events were not really suited for the kind of movie U-571 wanted to be.

Putting British sailors in U-571 would/might reconcile one inaccuray--without affecting the mountains of other problems the movie has. Then the corvette guys will be screaming about the sub community trying to steal their exploits...



"You feel the way the boat moves? The sunlight on your skin? That’s real. Life is wonderful."

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While there is no doubt that the British acted with both wisdom and bravery, and succeeded magnificently, the fact remains that the real events were not really suited for the kind of movie U-571 wanted to be.
Shame because a good movie could be (and should be) made about HMS Petard's capture of U-559. BTW Tommy Brown was from North Shields, my home town, and is commemorated here in the Saville Exchange in the town centre:
http://www.awesomestories.com/history/u571/u-559-u-boat-codes-are-brok en
U-559 - U-BOAT CODES ARE BROKEN

Even when Bletchley Park began to decipher encrypted Nazi messages, the U-boat version of Enigma proved much more difficult. Not until 1943, after British sailors drowned trying to recover an Enigma machine, were U-boat codes broken on a regular basis.

It wasn't an easy chase on October 30, 1942. HMS Petard and three other British destroyers were pursuing a Nazi sub in the Mediterranean Sea, not far from the Egyptian shore. U-559 was proving why U-boats were so dangerous. She was elusive. The chase lasted 16 hours before U-559's commander decided to scuttle his damaged ship about 70 miles north of the Nile Delta. (Follow this link to a map where U-559 went down. Look in the lower right-hand corner.)

Demonstrating courage that is hard to comprehend, three young men swam from Petard to U-559. Lt. Tony Fasson, Able Seaman Colin Grazier, and Canteen Assistant Tommy Brown descend into the sinking submarine. They wanted to retrieve the Enigma machine.

They could not remove U-559's Enigma from its mount. But with Brown at the top of the stairs, water streaming into the stricken vessel, Fasson and Grazier quickly passed the "Wetterkurzschlüssel" (short signal weather code) and the "Kurzsignalheft" (short signal code book) up to Brown who threw them into his whaleboat.

With death by drowning a near certainty if they didn't immediately leave the ship, Fasson and Grazier continued to gather Enigma documents, keypads and codes. Brown threw it all into the skiff. Barely a blink of an eye after Brown had the priceless Nazi codes on his whaleboat, U-559 went to the bottom, 70 miles from Port Said. Fasson and Grazier went down with her.

Tommy Brown, the Canteen Assistant, turned over one of the most important finds of WWII. He was 16 years old. Wanting to fight for his country, he had lied about his age.

Fasson and Grazier received Britain's second-highest honor for bravery, the George Cross. Brown received the George Medal. Two years later Brown was also dead. He died trying to rescue his two sisters from their burning slum tenement.

U-559's soaked Enigma machine turned out to be an even-more astounding recovery than anyone could have known. It contained the keys to the major German U-boat codes "Shark and Triton" - codes that Bletchley Park had not been able to decipher. Once Bletchley Park realized that the weather signals could be decoded with a four-rotor Enigma with the fourth wheel set on "A" (thus running in the Enigma equivalent of "idle"), they could reverse-engineer the wiring of the fourth wheel. THIS was the REAL achievement of the three valiant Englishmen.


"I was left in no doubt as to the severity of the hangover when the cat stamped into the room."

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^^

www.theactionfans.com "Clearly I have defeated this Earthworm" - Charlie Sheen

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They helped stuff your Nazi friends, KnightRider, and so helped to kill off the fuhrer you admire so muuh.
So piss off, Nazi wanker.

"I was left in no doubt as to the severity of the hangover when the cat stamped into the room."

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Sieg Heil.

www.theactionfans.com "Clearly I have defeated this Earthworm" - Charlie Sheen

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Y'know, I just finished reading "Ordinary Men".


If you want to do a little Nazi strut, do it outside of this topic.



"You feel the way the boat moves? The sunlight on your skin? That’s real. Life is wonderful."

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If the Brits want it bad enough, then they can make their own movie. While the Americans weren't the first to capture the enigma, they sure as heck got one of their own. How do the British think we got the U-505 at the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago, IL? The US Navy disabled U-505 in a depth charge attack, and dragged the sub to a US port with an Aircraft Carrier.

The huffing and puffing by the Brits regarding the facts of this movie are way overdone to the point of completely ignoring American success on these same operations. That doesn't make the events in U-571 true in any way shape or form, nor does it make the movie good knowing these things, but for crying out loud, Americans did their own part in securing enigma.

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The U-505 was captured in 1944, a bit too late to make that much difference in the Battle of the Atlantic which had been more or less won by then. HMS Bulldog and HMS Petard captured their Enigma materiel from U-boats in 1941 and 1942 when it was vitally important to the outcome of the war.

"I was left in no doubt as to the severity of the hangover when the cat stamped into the room."

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The only reason that the officers of the Chatelaine weren't court-martialled when they turned up in The Caribbean with U505 in tow was that it would have attracted more attention to the potentially catastophic stupidity of what they had done.

They were on station after a series of messages decrypted at Bletchley revealed 505's location and the fact that two members of the crew were injured and needing medical attention. They were part of a patrol group detailed to sink the UBoat and anything sent to its aid. As the information came through Ultra and had not been covered by an alternative possible source, U505 should have been sunk covertly and surviving members of the crew carted off to Canada. Towing it at slow speed across the Atlantic risked the biggest secret of the 20C and did not endear the crew of the Chatelaine to the RN or anyone else who knew the Enigma story.

The biggest inaccuracy in this film is that Enigma was broken without any need for the capture of actual machines. The Germans knew that the Alies would have Enigma machines. It was the encryption system that was thought to be uncrackable. 'Snatches' were intended to recover cryptographic material for cribs and shortcuts, not machines and were only done in extremis because of the risk of giving the game away.

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