MovieChat Forums > Pi (1998) Discussion > My interpretation of the ending... it's ...

My interpretation of the ending... it's a little different (SPOLERS!!!!

posted 14 years ago by theb1927
39 replies | jump to latest

Ok, this movie, first off, is a work of genius. The editing and camerawork is remarkably unique, the atmosphere is so palpable you could almost cut it with a knife, and Sean Guilette (who I'd never heard of) gave a TERRIFIC performance.

Anyhow, when Max drills into his brain, what happens to him isn't stated outwright. He could be alive, dead, dreaming, or anything the viewer decides.

Me? I don't think there's any chance in hell he could live through that. At first i thought he just barely dug into that growth on his temple, but i rewinded the scene. The drill goes in QUITE far. also, that was some INTENSE bloodshed. I don't see it being a survivable incident.

I know he was trying to rid his mind of the number, since it was controlling his life and that of others. but i don't think the scene with the little Asian girl was real. it would seem to me that that "scene" is what went through his mind as his thoughts were being jumbled, messed up, altered, and eventually destroyed. He found peace in his death (did you see how happy he was? it seems too good to be true), and although he wouldn't technically find God that way, I interpreted the film as being both a tragedy and a film about one's difficult journey to reach enlightenment.

Your thoughts?

Sora sees dead people!

[–] irishpepa 14 years ago

"My interpretation of the ending... it's a little different"

I'LL SAY!!!

I took the end as if it all had been just his imagiantion..i always thought that....does why I never liked A BEAUTIFUL MIND cause it resembled too much to this movie..anyway interpretations are subjective... so who knows for sure what that *beep* happened with GULLETTE's character =P . all in all it was a tipical ARONOFSKY' film...

VICTIMS..AREN'T WE ALL? (THE CROW)

[–] fibonazi 14 years ago

This is not a new theory, its been plastered all over the 'Pi' board since the get-go, with all due respect.

Pi, like all of Aronofsky's films, and most other great directors, holds a lot of ambiguity regarding its closing act, therefore nothing is set in stone. Anyway here is my interpretation, taken from a previous thread, copy/paste stylee...

"There is plenty of ambiguity in 'Pi', specifically regarding how it ends, but for those giving their interpretation of the ambiguity of 'whether or not he actually drilled into his head?' - to me the prospect of him not drilling into his head and it being some sort of metaphorical event or whatever seems ludicrous, and hadn't even crossed my mind.
However, I am of the ilk that everyone is entitled to their own interpretation, and a good bit of ambiguity in film is never a bad thing.

My interpretation, not mentioned yet:

I believe the reason Max drilled into his head is, just before doing so he experienced some kind of waking moment in which he achieved complete fulfillment by truly understanding 'the number', therefor the world, the universe, or god - so to speak.

Exactly what he discovered is something that cannot be put into words, but if I had to try and interpret it I would say he reached a level of comprehension, or understanding of nature and the universe, in its rawest mathematical form.

Mathematics is the language of nature, and accomplishing a complete understanding between the two was exactly what Max was trying to achieve throughout. Which he eventually did.

If you notice, strait after he receives this 'prophecy' symbolized by a blinding white light, he portrays an expression of complete clarity, and for the first time in the film he looks like he knows exactly what to do next. He then proceeds to calmly burn the paper with the number on it and drill into his head because 'what' he understands is almost 'forbidden'.

Exactly what Max discovered is whatever anyone wants it to be, but the point to be made is it was something so powerful that once he did understand it, there was no question what to do...

Some things should never be discovered.

Whether he drilled into his head to try and kill himself or just to destroy the part of the brain that enabled him to comprehend this thing is ambiguous. Its true he did have plenty of knowledge regarding the subject of 'the brain' so its perfectly plausible that he knew he would live and only destroy that element."

[–] franks-10 14 years ago

"Mathematics is the language of nature, and accomplishing a complete understanding between the two was exactly what Max was trying to achieve throughout. Which he eventually did."

This statement is the premise of this MOVIE.

However, it is important to understand that mathematics is entirely INVENTED by human beings, in order to comprehend and anticipate the environment around us, not the other way around.

I'm not just saying this as an intellectual egotrip, but this is my experience as well. Try for a moment to forget everything you've learned, and you will realize that what we think we know, is just a mirror, a pale shadow, of the real existence, the real God, the Universe, Brahman, Shiva, Allah, whatever you want to brand or call "the one and only ultimate reality".

All scriptures and traditions has this knowledge, that whatever we come up with, is just a mirror, or even product of God, and that we can never truly see Him / Her / Whatever as Allah really is.

Mathematically, whatever we measure, is just a noisy sample, always a smaller subset of the ultimate reality, with limitations abounding everywhere and no unlimited precision, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. Thus, we can never gain true holistic clarity through mathematics only, because we will never get all the variables, all the formulas, all the digits or even all the dimensions etc, etc.

We can only estimate based on our flawed perceptions. Sometimes, mathematics can be a block in true understanding, eg. in psychology, so there is no ultimate answer in using only the intellect. We can improve our measurements, but the big trap lies in only believing higher numbers means better and more efficient, while the ecosystems crumble and shatter around us..

This movie was not so much about nature I think. For that I found it too dark, paranoid and gloomy. However, working on theoretical problems CAN have such effects, and the points in the movie were all good faith arguments.

I believe he found relief, not enlightenment though.

[–] david63 14 years ago

I believe he found relief, not enlightenment though.

Yes, I agree. The closer he got to his breakthrough, the more his symptoms (the tremor in his hand and his excruciating headaches, his hallucinations and paranoia) got worse. Once he found the number, whatever it meant, the pain in his head was unbearable.

He drilled to get relief. The coda showing the girl asking him to multiple two numbers and his responding that he doesn't know the answer, with a smile on his face as he stares at the leaves in the tree, show that he found relief. It may have cost him his almost superhuman mathematical abilities, but it restored his sanity.

[–] minhal92 13 years ago

Some brilliant theories in the first few posts of this thread, specially OP and frank make very good points. I think I agree with franks-10 when he says mathematics is build by humans to create an understanding of the world and not the other way around.

[–] Rick-34 11 years ago

The truths of mathematics are observations of the universe. The fact that they are created by humans is relatively unimportant.

Does this mean that I believe in "the other way around"? Most mathematicians feel this way, I think.

[–] HorusEye 11 years ago

It is the argument that separated Plato and Aristotle - whether there is a world of concepts (forms) that could exist independently of and above nature. The big question on the existence of metaphysics that can never be settled, but never the less is interesting. If ideas cannot exist and be considered real in themselves independently of matter, then likewise one must conclude there are no gods, no soul, no consciousness outside the natural world. Whether all this is unimportant is of course a matter of view point. Personally, I think the questions are more interesting than the possible answers.

[–] DarrenDirt 11 years ago

Horus, based on what you said above -- especially the final sentence -- you might enjoy diving deep into "brief history of timelessness" -- Google that. It's a book, with much of its content online. Lots of food for thought, logical arguments whose impact can hurt the brain after a while of trying to digest them. But "fun" for people like me, and presumably you as well. :p

In a nutshell, like "mathematics" "time" also doesn't innately exist in the objective material reality we live in, but it's a handy invented conceptual tool that mankind uses in all sorts of ways. But there's no scientific evidence proving the existence of "the past" or "the future", only that matter and objects exist and interact (but "exist and interact over time" is not proveably true, it's just what we have been taught to believe unquestioningly).

There's also an Amazon discussion -- http://goo.gl/WnoGv8

- - -

Chipping away at a mountain of pop culture trivia,
Darren Dirt.

[–] jason-859-777508 12 years ago

Some things should never be discovered.

Then why are we created with such inquisitive minds? I don't buy into this. I've got a more William of Baskerville view of things.

I mean, if whatever Max discovered gave him relief, and was so comforting that he

portrays an expression of complete clarity, and for the first time in the film he looks like he knows exactly what to do next.

then whats wrong with that? It points out that the source of the number is a good thing.

If your hair is on fire, you need to act like your hair is on fire. - Senator Nina Turner

[–] fibonazi 12 years ago

Being created with an inquisitive mind does not adhere to the notion of a certainty that everything in existence must get discovered by it.. I don't quite get what point you are making there.

As stated, Max expressed what I considered to be complete clarity, at no point did I state that whatever Max discovered gave him relief or comfort, on the contrary, if anything quite the opposite.

I do not claim to have an understanding of what exactly it was he discovered, if anything, or what was going on in his head at that point, in fact I'm pretty sure that even Aranofsky or Gullette aren't sure of all those things either.

This is the entire point of ambiguity (in this case done superbly), people can take and shape it into whatever they want it to be.

"Exactly what Max discovered is whatever anyone wants it to be, but the point to be made is it was something so powerful that once he did understand it, there was no question what to do..."

I believe the above quoted is the most relevant aspect of my previous post. I do of course stand by my theory of what occurred, because that is what I take from the film, and on the whole it is not an unreasonable theory to assume. I'm not saying that Max was a ghost or a robot or something. What my theory suggested was something that could be considered rational within the confines of the script/story.

It is great to see so many great theories of what exactly did happen. Although its kinda funny how in many ways they are all correct, and yet none of them are.

[–] Rick-34 11 years ago

Although its kinda funny how in many ways they are all correct, and yet none of them are.

This kind of gibberish is about as anti-mathematical as you can get.

[–] fibonazi 11 years ago

Good, as being anti-mathmatical was the statements ultimate intention. Cheers.

[–] twelvepointnine 14 years ago

I don't think there's any chance in hell he could live through that.

Phineas Gage http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penetrating_head_injury

Chaos reigns

[–] apple-bottom 14 years ago

Not only Gage, but there are plenty of people who've survived icepick lobotomies and nails through their skull.

Your interpretation isn't wrong, OP, but then very few movie interpretations are. If you want to believe he died then cool. I believe he suffered an ego death or potentially accidentally lobotomized himself, which made the headaches go away. But either is a justifiable interpretation.

[–] neon_black88 14 years ago

I'm going to go with he was partly trying to cure his headaches, he talks about finding treatments for it and he's constantly looking at himself in the mirror with a medical book with the human skull, he knew what he wanted to do for a while.

[–] Cinefilodough 13 years ago

remember though, his headaches and his search for understanding all encompassing truth are related. He got his headaches while trying to stare directly into the sun, the light of course the oldest most archetypal symbol for truth. As his mathematical quest, another attempt to "stare into the sun", wore on, his headaches and paranoia worsened. So ending his headaches with the drill is also like saying ending his obsession with the all encompassing god-mathematics.

I think this film is more a cautionary tale that the universe is vastly mysterious and trying to understand it completely in objective scientific terms is a folly, and can only result in obsession, and cramming the world through a paradigm that is only in ones head, in order to understand it. It's a lot of order, but a lot of chaos, and shrouded in mystery.

[–] koningwoning-1 11 years ago

The sun is the Ultimate symbol of God - any pagan / nature based religion (including Egyptian) had the Sun as the ultimate god. After that the number of God got printed in his head. He was not searching for the truth, but for this number... he just did not understand that.

As to the ending... it is done so on pupose. A very well known kabalistic myth (let's face it.. a movie does not become more kabalistic than this one) is of the 4 rabbi's who went to the highest part... the pardes (garden of eden, let's just say - stare God in the face) Ben Azzai, Ben Zoma, Achér and Rabbi Akiva. Ben Azzai dared a glimpse and died. Ben Zoma dared a look and went insane. Acher cut the plants (which commonly is thought means that he turned away to gnosticism) and Rabbi Akiva went in peace.

Read that again.... now look at the last scene.... all 4 interpretations can be found in the end scene... this is why it is brillinant.

[–] a-pasino 14 years ago

It doesn't matter whether it was a dream, an allucination, or it was real. This movie is art, there is no point in interpreting art as if reality.
The meaning of the act is what matters, and about that there would be much to talk about. He obviously understood the pattern, but he could not live with it. Why?

[–] ginodimov4 14 years ago

Stop worry for Max. :) Hes is OK. It's all about his head. Did you see the movie? ;))

[–] aa-ron-1 13 years ago

People have been shot in the head with a bullet lodged in their brain and survives for decades until something else killed them, a quick wiki search also shows that trepannation has been done since the dawn of tools, with evidence of people surviving a hole size of a golf ball in their skull. A person named Amanda Feilding and her boyfriend both trepanned themselves, and filmed it, lived to tell the tale, even had children after that. So as far as feasibility goes, he could have easily survived that, besides, when he did it (assuming he actually did it as opposed to the other 314 imagined theories), he didn't do it thinking it would "cure" him, it was just an act that somehow made sense to him at the time under intense pain, like scratching an itch, except with a power drill.

[–] restga 13 years ago

Well, I guess he survived the drilling THING ... you know why because;
1.the brain tissue is insensitive to any kind of pain so he won't get into Neurogenic shock.
2.the blood supply to the skull and meninges is NOT that much so he won't bleed to death.
3.Besides what's most important here is that the cerebral hemispheres contain NO vital life centers ( those of respiration, heart beating, reflex actions, vasomotor regulatory centers ... etc) in fact it contains high complex centers of memory, numbers, language, speech, logic and thinking.
And you can see in the last scene before he drilled through his skull he did that guided by a textbook of anatomy denoting that he was aiming at the numbers area in the cerebral cortex and that what happened afterwards when the little Chinese girl asked him about numbers > HE COULD NOT REPLY because he STERILIZED his brain of all the numbers in the world meaning that he could NOT calculate 1+1=?!
Get it buddy =)

Ah for the record I'm a doctor =D =P

[–] koningwoning-1 11 years ago

The ending... it is done in a multi-interpretable way on pupose. A very well known kabalistic myth (let's face it.. a movie does not become more kabalistic than this one) is of the 4 rabbi's who went to the highest part... the pardes (garden of eden, let's just say - stare God in the face) Ben Azzai, Ben Zoma, Achér and Rabbi Akiva. Ben Azzai dared a glimpse and died. Ben Zoma dared a look and went insane. Acher cut the plants (which commonly is thought means that he turned away to gnosticism... meaning no more numbers) and Rabbi Akiva went in peace.

Read that again.... now look at the last scene.... all 4 interpretations can be found in the end scene... this is why it is brilliant.

[–] enterthedragonmaster 13 years ago

My interpretation is that this film is about conspiracy theorists and people who get obsessed with explaining the world structure...and end up destroying themselves.