Mace in Episode I: I...do not believe the Sith could have returned without us knowing.
Mace in Episode III: A Sith LORD???
ξ¦YESSS! A SITH LORD!
π¨http://thepoliticsboardisatoxicenvironment.ytmnd.com/π¨
yes the Jedi Council display quite a bit of buffoonery
__________
.and then the bong hits him on the head and he falls RIGHT over the realitY
Like Bane said in the Dark Knight Rises: Victory has defeated them. It looks like they have become soft and arrogant over the years with no Sith to keep them on their toes
Though I don't think them not knowing Palpatine was the Sith makes them clueless, corrupt sure but Sith lord is quite the accusation especially since they have been close to him since they worked together in TPM
Yep, that's pretty much it. The idea of the Jedi being skeptical that such things could happen in the galaxy under their watch without their knowing was deliberate. There's the two examples the OP gave and more. Namely their complete shrugging off of the idea that Dooku, a veteran former Jedi, could possibly be behind an assassination plot as well as Jocasta's indignant reaction to Obi-Wan's assertion that the archives could be incomplete when he doesn't find Kamino.
shareThat might have worked if the Jedi's softness had gotten any forcus. Instead we get only a few throw-away lines spaced throughout 3 films. It only gets worse when you remember all the facts they discover about the sketchy circumstances behind the clones' creation, which they even discuss on screen, but they still can't put 2 and 2 together. Do Palpatine's mind-clouding abilities (which make him overpowered as is) extend beyond the Force and into the Jedi's critical faculties? If so, that's a pretty lazy excuse IMO.
Hell, them being close to him but incapable of realizing he's blocking them using the Force makes it even worse, especially since they mention in ROTS how the Dark Side surrounds him. Or did they never try? If they know the Dark Side surrounds him then why would they never try to read him using the Force?
Bottom line: the Empire's rise was less due to any genius scheme of Palpatine's (hell, his actual orders make little, if any, sense when you consider them in context), but rather because the protagonists of the prequels are incapable of critical thought.
And all the while, Darth Sidious is being pretty candid about what he is to those he has dealings with. Introducing those Trade Federation guys to Darth Maul, and announcing his new apprentice Darth Vader.
He even brags to the general that he's got a new apprentice is more powerful than Count Dooku. Sheesh, what if those holograms got around? For a guy leading a double life, you'd think he'd be more coy about it, but I guess he had nothing to worry about since the Jedi are a bunch of boobsξ¦
Anakin: You know the dark side????
Palpatine: YEEEEEEES! We talked about it just yesterday! I told you a SITH LEGEND, for fvcks sake!
πhttp://amessagefromdonaldtrump.ytmnd.com/ππΊπΈ
And all the while, Darth Sidious is being pretty candid about what he is to those he has dealings with. Introducing those Trade Federation guys to Darth Maul, and announcing his new apprentice Darth Vader.You really think Gunray or Grievous would go to the Jedi and tell them they're in league with Sidious?
He even brags to the general that he's got a new apprentice is more powerful than Count Dooku. Sheesh, what if those holograms got around? For a guy leading a double life, you'd think he'd be more coy about it, but I guess he had nothing to worry about since the Jedi are a bunch of boobs
Eh, it's not impossible. Criminals frequently inform on each other to save their own skins and bad guys throw each other under the bus all the time. Or a spy might tell them, or better yet show them, since he's annoucing this stuff in hologram form.
But in any case, why's he chitchatting about it at all? This guy spends his day-to-day life hiding in plain sight from his arch enemies only to call some shady aliens and start flapping his gums about his Sith business? Seems like he'd be as private about it as possible.
For instance, instead of saying "I'm sending my new apprentice" he could just say "I'm sending a dude." ξ
πhttp://amessagefromdonaldtrump.ytmnd.com/ππΊπΈ
But he is talking as Sidious not Palpatine. The Jedi already know of Sidious, name and all, so he isn't knew information after TPM. They knew Maul was a Sith without having to be told and knew there would be an apprentice to replace him
shareNot so. At the end of TPM, they're puzzling over "which was destroyed? The master...or the apprentice?" as he stands a few feet away.
They don't learn the name Sidious until AOTC when Dooku tells Obi-Wan, and when Obi-Wan shares this information with the other Jedi, they call BS! ξ¦
πhttp://amessagefromdonaldtrump.ytmnd.com/ππΊπΈ
Im sorry what is not so? You didnt counter a single thing I said so I'm not sure what the problem is
shareThe Jedi already know of Sidious, name and all, so he isn't knew information after TPM.
Completely false, Dooku tells Obi-Wan the name Darth Sidious. He even says he is a Sith Lord. Also not knowing if Maul was apprentice or master is completely irrelevant as he is either the apprentice and replaced with another or the master and the apprentice becomes the master
shareCompletely false, Dooku tells Obi-Wan the name Darth Sidious.
The Jedi already know of Sidious, name and all, so he isn't knew information after TPM.
So when I say the knew of Sidious after TPM you say false they knew of him after TPM? I'm wrong for being right? Is this a joke?
shareDo Palpatine's mind-clouding abilities (which make him overpowered as is)Says the fan of Rey.
Hell, them being close to him but incapable of realizing he's blocking them using the Force makes it even worse, especially since they mention in ROTS how the Dark Side surrounds him.The Force surrounds everyone. If, hypothetically speaking, Obi-Wan had encountered Tarkin on the Death Star, he would've sensed the dark side surrounding him. That doesn't make Tarkin a Sith.
Says the fan of Rey.
The Force surrounds everyone. If, hypothetically speaking, Obi-Wan had encountered Tarkin on the Death Star, he would've sensed the dark side surrounding him. That doesn't make Tarkin a Sith.
For 13 years, and possibly even before Phantom, Palpatine manipulated galactic events and the Jedi didn't see it at all. The entire Clone Wars, even the origins of the Clones, was all Palpatine's doing, yet the Jedi didn't investigate it at all.
Then there's the Yoda vs Palpatine fight... I don't like how Yoda just gives up and leaves, knowing full well the fate of the galaxy is up to him. All he needed to do was rest, recooperate, and go back to face Palpatine--with Obi-Wan, and turn on a news camera so the galaxy could see that Palpatine was actually an evil Sith Lord.
But no, lets right away go into hiding for 19-22 years and hope that Luke Skywalker doesn't fall into a Sarlacc Pit while he's growing up on Tatooine, meanwhile Darth Vader continues to hunt down all the Jedi.
Palpatine had a whole galactic army to protect him lol. Yoda alone against Sidious barely holds out. With the clones ganging up on him he would have no chance, even Yoda is strong enough against those kind of odds!
shareIn contrast to Disney's take on SW, Lucas' characters don't have the benefit of having seen the OT.
Disbelief is a natural reaction when somebody claims a thousand year defunct enemy has returned. Would you believe the Knights Templar had survived in secret, plotting to overthrow America? Would you believe somebody claiming the President was their leader?
Except the council send Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon back to Naboo in the hopes of "unravelling the mystery of the Sith." Later, Windu and Yoda discuss how there was no doubt Maul was a Sith, and admit they don't know if he was the master or the apprentice. Then, 10 years later, Dooku tells Obi-Wan that a Sith is controlling the Senate. Apparently after both TPM and AOTC the Jedi just sit back and don't look into this too hard. So the idea that the Sith are back has been around for over a decade by the time of ROTS. And the Jedi are still shocked when Palpatine admits it? Hell, Anakin even says that he's the Sith lord they've been looking for!
shareRight, because they aren't exactly clueless. They just aren't ready to say it's a Sith right away, but when Qui Gon is defeated and killed they know.
Their complacency blinded them. One of Lucas' themes. Power, riches or even knowledge does not prevail in Star Wars. Only love and virtue does. They could not conceive of a Sith hiding in their midst because they thought themselves too powerful, too knowledgeable, too in tune with the Force. Would you know if Donald Trump was a Sith Lord?
Except they talk about how their ability to use the Force is diminished starting in AOTC. And they admit the Dark Side surrounds Palpatine. Combined with the Jedi's inability to think critically and put the evidence they actually discuss together, and it's not complacency. It's sheer stupidity.
Perhaps if George had gotten someone else to do some strong rewrites that focused on this theme of complacency, it might have actually worked. Instead, all we have are fanboys making excuses for poor writing and direction. But hey, at least we got 50s diners, a superfluous prologue of a first movie, some of the most cringe-inducing attempts at romance you'll see in cinema, etc.. Who needs focus on themes that are pretty crucial to the story! ξ
Anakin is even dumber than the whole Jedi Council put together :
"I think Palpatine is a Sith Lord"
YOU THINK ?????
He just told you !!!!
How stupid is this guy ????
Can you imagine how much patience must Palpatine have had while training this dumbass ???
I disagree with "at times".
share