WW2 Questions


1. Did Allied/Axis/Resistance fighters ever use each others weapons? For instance, if a group of Allied soldiers ambushed Axis fighters and killed them all, would the Allied soldiers go through the belongings of the dead and take anything useful (e.g. pistol, ammo, water, intel, grenades, primary weapon etc)?

2. When the war was raging in Europe, did Allied soldiers stay at local's houses around Europe to heal, sleep, eat etc? Did the locals have to accommodate the Allies?

I've seen this in another war movie but wondered how common this was and on what scale (small, medium, large scale)?

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1. Did Allied/Axis/Resistance fighters ever use each others weapons? For instance, if a group of Allied soldiers ambushed Axis fighters and killed them all, would the Allied soldiers go through the belongings of the dead and take anything useful (e.g. pistol, ammo, water, intel, grenades, primary weapon etc)?


All but the small arms were taken regularly. When it came to small arms (pistols and primary weapons) it was common on the Eastern Front and by Partisans, but only to a small extent by actual Military forces on the Western/Italian fronts. Just look at pictures of German soldiers in the Soviet Union (especially 1942-43), large amounts are armed with PPSH 41s.

2. When the war was raging in Europe, did Allied soldiers stay at local's houses around Europe to heal, sleep, eat etc? Did the locals have to accommodate the Allies?

I'm sure sometimes yes. But generally they they were relegated to their own Bases/HQs/field hospitals or they got a pass to go to major cities like Paris.
My understanding is that being housed with locals was for soldiers on occupation duty.

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SMLE
MP40
Type 89

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MOSIN
MG34
FG42
MG42
Hetzer
Marder
sdkfz 250
Panzerschrek
Tellermine 43

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I have read that picking up the wrong gun could get you killed. Guns have a distinctive sound. You can get shot by your own people if they hear the sound of an enemy weapon.

The most important thing is sincerity. If you can fake that you've got it made.

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1. Did Allied/Axis/Resistance fighters ever use each others weapons? For instance, if a group of Allied soldiers ambushed Axis fighters and killed them all, would the Allied soldiers go through the belongings of the dead and take anything useful (e.g. pistol, ammo, water, intel, grenades, primary weapon etc)?
The Resistance, definitely. I would guess they could not afford to be choosy about what they had/used. No telling when there would be a "dry spell" as far as their weapon inventory goes. I'm sure they couldn't rely on a steady supply from the Allies; those could easily be captured. When ambushing some Axis person, like R. Heydrich was, it seems that using weapons sounding like the Axis ones would help the assassins escape by creating some amount of confusion. I think it would.

Allied/Axis might draw friendly fire if they did so. Same thing with uniforms, sometimes. The Americans wouldn't use the Marine Corp camo print in Europe because it might cause some Allies to think they were German when seen at long range.



2. When the war was raging in Europe, did Allied soldiers stay at local's houses around Europe to heal, sleep, eat etc? Did the locals have to accommodate the Allies?
I would say the Allies didn't need to but may have done so "off the grid". But I would suspect that commanders might object to that because they had to be able to locate subordinates whenever needed.

Escaping Allied POWs certainly were put up by the Resistance when making their way across Europe to friendly lines.

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As a somewhat related aside, the Allies before the invasion even tried to encourage French citizens to kill Germans, and take their weapons. They manufactured a cheap, small, single-shot pistol in .45 cal that held a couple of extra rounds in a hollow handle. These were parachuted into occupied France. The idea (illustrated by an included drawing) was to find a German soldier alone, shoot him in the back of the head, and take his weapon and ammo. I understand it didn't work very well. Perhaps the Germans were smart enough to advise their soldiers to never venture into hostile areas alone. The interesting thing is, later the CIA planned to do the same thing in VietNam. They even manufactured a whole new weapon for the purpose. That one (I think ) never got to the execution phase. I used to have pictures of both guns. I'll try to find them, and post them later.



TNSTAAFL

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The gun was called the FP-45 Liberator, it did not have any place to carry extra ammo, it was intended to be used once. There was a good chance the gun would blow up and injure the shooter, It had an un rifled barrel which gave it a maximum range of 25 feet but it lost it's accuracy after 4 to 5 feet. The gun was never intended to fire more than once, It was intended to kill the enemy and take his gun and ammo. I remember seeing replicas for sale for about $500 maybe $1,000. They had a rivet that blocked the barrel to prevent the replica from being fired, the manufacture said they could be fire if you removed the rivet but there was a warming against shooting them because the gun could blow up.

This is a picture of the replica
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v308/silvercorvette/liberator.jpg

The most important thing is sincerity. If you can fake that you've got it made.
I want to win the Nobel Peace Prize so bad that I would kill for it
If boxing is a manly sport why do they fight for a purse?

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That's it. Are you sure there wasn't a space in the handle for two rounds? I'm almost sure I remember that from the G&A article from way back where I first heard of it. Plus, it looks in your pic that there is a small trap door in the base of the grip with a latch on the forward edge.


TNSTAAFL

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I WAS WRONG I MADE A MISTAKE, I POSTED A LINK WITH THE CORRECT INFO BELOW



I can't say I am 100% sure, but the fact that the gun was only intended to fire one shot to killl the enemy to take an use his guns and the fact that multiple shots would increase the odds of the gun blowing up in your hand with each shot makes it unlikely to hold extra ammo.
I could be wrong but the fact that the gun was not well built leads me to believe there was no place to store ammo.

I just thought of this while I was typing. The gun was a very simple low tech design so it seems unlikely that they would add something to complicate the design.



The most important thing is sincerity. If you can fake that you've got it made.

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GUESS WHAT I WAS WRONG YOUR MEMORY IS BETTER THAN MINE

I checked to see if they were still selling replicas and I found this site

http://www.liberatorpistol.com/fp-45-liberator-ammunition-storage.html

PS I left the wrong info up instead of deleting it because I did not want it to seem that I was trying to cover up the fact I made a mistake

PPSYou can still buy then for between $620 to $680

http://vintageordnance.com/t/fp-45-liberator-pistol

check out the video

https://youtu.be/vwjyQt_fvzI

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PS I left the wrong info up instead of deleting it because I did not want it to seem that I was trying to cover up the fact I made a mistake


An unnecessary gesture, but appreciated nonetheless. Thanks for the additional info. Got any on the Viet Nam era version?

EDIT: Nevermind, I found this:

http://www.guns.com/2014/04/23/cias-deer-gun-dirty-deeds-done-dirt-cheap/

TNSTAAFL

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You know more about guns than most people so I am wondering if you own guns. I lived in NY for many years but even though I was a cop it still was hard to own some types of guns unit I moved to a free state. I figure a person like you that knows so much may not be allowed to own a gun if the lives in a socialist/communist state like NY. Or you do own guns because you are fortunate to live in a free state. The number one priority for me when I escaped from NY was t buy a Thompson sub-machine gun.

The most important thing is sincerity. If you can fake that you've got it made.

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I do know a bit about guns, having owned them all my adult life (I'm 62), and read a lot about those I don't own. Many of my hobbies relate to guns (reenactor/ living historian/entertainer for ACW, Mountain Man, Old West ). I live in Louisiana. However, I'd prefer if we kept the politics out of this discussion if you don't mind. You see, I'm a gun-totin, Second Ammendment-defending, dyed-in-the-wool, liberal.



TNSTAAFL

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No problem. I lived in NY for 61 years till I moved to S Carolina 9 years ago. I honestly did not know how bad Y was till I escaped to SC. Here in SC I can walk into a gun store and walk out on 10 minutes. In NY I had to go to that gun store and get the serial number, then I had to drive 20 miles to police headquarters and give them the serial number along with a $10 check (it may have e increased in 10 years). The pistol permit section would give me a permission to buy slip that I had to take to the gun store. After I gave the permission to buy slip to the store I had to drive back to HQ again (20 miles) where I had to show them the gun so they could verify the serial number and have them add the gun to my permit. The NY all your handguns need to be listed on your permit, if you get caught with a gun that isn't on yo your permit you are in trouble.

When I lived in NY I just considered it was normal I never realized how bad it was till I moved to SC.I don't know if you have ever lived in a state like NY but I have told my friends and neighbors in S Carolina that in order to realize how lucky they are to live where they are. When I left NY 9 years ago it was bad and I did not think it was possible for them to get worst but Gov Cuomo made it even worst in NY. What bothers me is Cuomo came and said you don't need a lot of bulletes to kill a deer, he is too dumb to know that the 2nd has nothing to do with hunting. He even came right out and told gun owners to leave because he does not want us in NY. No on the other hand I belong I belong to gun forums, the one I visit most often welcomes everyone. We have members that are black, white, gay straigh, and one member is a member of pink pistols. I contend that gun owners are more open minded then the Governor of NY. We welcome everyone except for those that want to take our guns away. As far as I am concerned I have no problem with anyone from any race or sexual orientation as long as they are not anti gun.

This will be the last political statement directed toward you and I will respect your wishes to avoid politics but I has felt that I had to say that the fact that you are liberal does note me dislike you. Best wishes a fellow gun owner.

By the way the gun I most often carry is a S&W 1911.

I do not dislike all liberals, Just the ones that want to take away or restrict my right to KABA

The most important thing is sincerity. If you can fake that you've got it made.

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No problem. And I agree. I wouldn't have liked to live under a system like that either.

My favorite carry is a wheel gun. I like a snub-nosed .38 with hollow point +P. It's only five rounds. But I figure if I can't do what I need to in five rounds with any scenario I'm likely to encounter, I probably shouldn't be carrying.

TNSTAAFL

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This is the 1911 I now carry, I have a few 1911s

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v308/silvercorvette/DSC00194_zpsqezl18jc.jpg

Before the 1911 I carried This 8 shot S&W .357 revolver (obviously the one at the bottom

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v308/silvercorvette/DSC00901.jpg

Sometimes I just stick this S&W CS in .45 ACP in my pocket

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v308/silvercorvette/DSC00714.jpg

This S&W combat masterpiece was issued to me by my department in 1970 when I became a cop

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v308/silvercorvette/DSC00676.jpg

I could not legally own this when I was in NY so it was the first thing I bought when I moved to SC

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v308/silvercorvette/DSC00775.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v308/silvercorvette/3031195278_ca2c045d87.jpg



The most important thing is sincerity. If you can fake that you've got it made.

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The grip on your service revolver looks a bit like the ones on a Bisley. It's closer to a right angle than the standard Colt type. I love those. I've owned two Bisleys, both in .357, and both with 7 1/2 inch barrels. I find that in my hand, they come to battery just a bit faster than the Colt type grip.

Love the pistol grip fore end of the Thompson. Did you go all out and get the drum magazine? We had an interesting discussion on this board a while back about methods for gripping submachine guns. My Dad (who had one issued to him in New Guinea in WWII) told me as a kid that you couldn't hold the magazine of a Thompson while firing as it would get too hot. Other posters here pretty much proved the fallacy of that. He didn't like the Thompson though. He said it emptied the mag too quickly in a fire fight. He used to say the one thing you didn't want to happen when you had a bunch of Japanese charging your position was to run out of ammo. He "lost" his in a river crossing, and requested a Garand as a replacement. He liked the fact that he could load it with AP rounds and shoot the enemy through the palm trees they would hide behind (and he did).

I also like that compact .45. What's the mag capacity of that?

TNSTAAFL

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The original wood factory grips that came with the were taken off the day after I was issued the gun, We were all issued guns and taught basic safety and gun basics. They we fired off a couple hundred rounds and told to practice because if we could not qualify we could not graduate. I replaced the grip with beautiful rosewood grips. After about 12 to 15 years the got damaged but were still useable. I was going to buy new grips but one time at the range during yearly qualification the asked if anyone wanted new grips they were giving them away. I took the grips a put them on my gun and they remain on the gun today.

Here is a little slightly off topic side story
Believe it or not there was a chance I could have gotten a free Glock. I had close to 20 years on the job and close to retirement and our department started switching over to Glocks. We were allowed to keep our service weapons when we retire and if I was able to manage getting issued a Glock I could keep it when I retired. The problem was I would have to turn in my revolver to get the Glock and there is no way I will ever swap my revolver for a Glock. I am not saying I could have made it happen but did not even want to try because I would never get rid of a gun I carried at my side and protected me for 20 years.

A lot of people spend way too much money on Colt Pythons (I own three that I bought before the prices went crazy I posted a picture of one below) For my money the S&W's trigger is ever bit as smooth as the Colt except for the fact it can only shoot .38 special and the Colt fires both .38s and .357s.
===========================================================

The pistol fore end was almost never used my the military but I also love the looks of the pistol grip and did my best to try to find one in that configuration I bought the Thompson about a year after I moved here, it came with one 50 round drum mag, a few 20 and 30 round stick mags (the drum mags were designated in Roman numerals 50 rounds = L, 100 round drums = C mags. Drum mags were not considered reliable in combat so most of the war movies do not show drum mags being used. By the way The barrel heats up very fast, the first time I shot it my arm touched the barrel after I fired about 20 rounds and gave me a bad burn. I don't know what it is like in combat but I would rather have 30 rounds That I can fire in short bursts than a M1 Garand with a 8 round en bloc clip if I am up close clearing a room. I also own two Garands and it would be a difficult choice. The Thompson is smaller and more maneuverable in tight places plus it holds 30 rounds, but although the Grand is large and only holds 8 rounds the .30-06 Springfield is much more powerful and can hit targets further away

I always wanted a Thompson but NYs gun laws do not allow it so the only way it was possible was to move south.

=======================================================

The S&W chief special hols 6+1 rounds of .45ACP. They all made a 9MM version of the gun but I do not know the capacity. I bought the gun new many years ago and now that S&W stopped making them they have gone way up in price. I have seen them sell in the range of $1,000.
I just bought one for my cousin that I got for about $500 with shipping and FFL fees. He is a new shooter an is a bit afraid of the Glock because it has no safety. I think I would be a little concerned about him getting any gun without a safety until he has more experience. Glocks are great guns but that does not mean they are the right gun for everyone.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v308/silvercorvette/get-attachment.aspx-2_zpsrauop3py.jpeg



The most important thing is sincerity. If you can fake that you've got it made.

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You seem to be a "S&W man" when it comes to revolvers. Tell me, what do you think about Ruger? I've owned several (my favorite being a .357 Security Six), and find them smooth, reliable, and accurate.

TNSTAAFL

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I do have to admit that I was ticked off at Bill Ruger for a long time and would not buy any Ruger because he helped write the law that limited magazine capacity to 10 rounds. Bill Ruger died a long time ago, the 10 round limit expired (NY and about 5 or 6 states kept the limit) so for me enough time had past for me to grow up and get over it and buy Rugers.

Ruger makes darn good guns. I have a few 10/22s and single action revolvers I do reloading (one Dillon 650, and two Hornady lock and load progressive). If you check the reloading manuals the Colt SAA just is not as well built as the Ruger. The Ruger is about to handle hotter loads than the Colt. So my all my Rugers are either 10/22s or single action, But I guess since the first handgun I ever owned was a S&W I stuck with S&Ws. (I prefer the older S&W pre lock revolvers but some models are only available with locks) I do not want a lock built into any of my guns. I have heard in rare cases that S&Ws lock up by themselves, which is the worst think I can think of in a gun I carry for self protection so if I do buy one with a lock I remove the lock.

The fact is I do have some favorites but I am not stuck on one brand If I see something I like or someone who's opinion I respect recommends a gun I will check it out. I don't have any experience with the Security six but I will check one out because of your recommendation. Unfortunately my guns safes are full and I need to buy another safe before I buy another gun.

The most important thing is sincerity. If you can fake that you've got it made.

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"execution phase", an apt turn of phrase, Bill! Yes, various resistance used plenty of enemy weapons, not least because some of them were better than ours. SOE and OSS dropped thousands more by parachute along with other supplies and supplied personnel to help with training.
As an aside I'm always a little irritated when watching Yugoslav war movies because they never seem to acknowledge British or American aid although they got lots of it.

Trust me. I know what I'm doing.

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"execution phase", an apt turn of phrase, Bill!


Thank you! Believe it or not, it was intentional. Glad someone got it, and at the same time not surprised it was you.

TNSTAAFL

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I'm originally from the Philippines, and had a number of relatives who fought in the guerrilla forces after the fall of Bataan and Corregidor. The guerrilla forces were made up of both American and Filipino survivors who managed to escape or avoid capture by the Japanese and whoever could be recruited from the civilian populace, and then later in the war as American aircraft reappeared over the Philippines, any shot down American aircrews who were rescued by them. They were under long-distance command of General MacArthur's headquarters via short-wave radio and otherwise very primitive and clandestine communications.

They definitely fought with whatever weapons they could get their hands on. They definitely stripped the Japanese dead of their weapons and ammo whenever practicable. Even with that and a trickle of ammunition resupply from US Navy submarines, ammo was always short, and if you didn't demonstrate good enough marksmanship to not waste ammo, you fought with a homemade muzzle-loading shotgun, bolo knife (something of a cross between a machete and a giant meat cleaver), crossbow, or poison darts shot with a blow-gun. Even today in the US Army, 75 years later, if you fail a marksmanship qualification or other weapons proficiency evaluation, the slang is "to bolo the test".

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The French resistance was not always as noble and heroic as depicted in some Hollywood movies. They murdered unarmed prisoners and killed civilians as well - http://codoh.com/library/document/2359/

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And precisely what were they supposed to do with any prisoners? Send them to the French Resistance run Pow camp? Send 'em to Butlins?
They couldn't keep them and couldn't let them go either. Considering that any Maquis member would have been executed by the Nazis without any qualms it's hardly surprising the Nazis got no quarter either.

Trust me. I know what I'm doing.

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LOL, codoh and robert faurisson. Why are you such a pale imitation of Thusnelda, bloody-3?

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