MovieChat Forums > Enemy of the State (1998) Discussion > But the video evidence would not be admi...

But the video evidence would not be admissible in court!


In the movie, a political figure character (Jon Voight), is captured on video accidentally murdering a congressman. He spends the whole movie trying to get the video back, after it is planted on Will Smith's character.

However, video evidence is not admissible in court unless the source who made the video can corroborate it. In Enemy of the State, the source is killed. So even though there is a video floating around there, that can be turned in, since the source who made it is killed, the villain has nothing to worry about and would legally be indicted.

Will Smith's character is also a prosecutor, so he would know this, and come to that conclusion, wouldn't he?

So why did the villain spend all that time trying to get the video, even putting a gun to Gene Hackman's head, when legally he had nothing to worry about?

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Because the public would just be okay with a couple of guys of the NSA killing some politician?

His life and career would simply be ruined. Even if the video would really be inadmissable in court (I can't find any info that specifies that the source has to corroborate it), it would be enough reason to investigate the politcian's death.

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But even so, he was willing to commit murder just to get the video back. If he is caught on those murders, and they were tied to him, he would be looking at a bigger legal punishment. Everything he did was more punishable for him, than what was on the video.

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He had to try. Like I said, his life and career would be ruined if that video was made public. He was also pretty arrogant, he thought he would get away with it. He already committed murder once. Some desperate people do commit murder to cover up another murder.

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Yeah that's true, but I am surprised he is able to get all these men to go along with him in risking life sentences, in order to cover up his mistake.

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Some of the guys were directly involved in the murder and protecting their own backs, ofcourse. The others were just doing their job and being loyal to the NSA, no questions asked. They all seemed to share the mentality that they were in the right and above everyone else. No doubt they also would've been rewarded had everything worked out for them.

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Yeah I guess, like how the Jack Black character, raised an eyebrow when they shot Gene Hackman in the hand... Is that why he recoreded it, in case he got in trouble, he wanted to bring his corrupt boss down with him?

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Hm, I never really noticed that. I'm not sure if that was the reason since he played dumb once he got caught.

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But when we got caught he said he was just there for technical support and he had no idea what his boss was really up to.

If this is the case, I thought maybe that is why he decided to record it, because he felt that if he is going down, he is going to bring his boss down with him.

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When the guy asked him why he recorded it he didn't answer the question and acted innocent. If he did record it all to bring his boss down in case he got caught, it seems that was the moment to tell thet truth instead of stalling.

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Well I thought the reason why he didn't say it he was bringing his boss down with him is cause that sounds bad, and maybe trying to play innocent was better.

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I know what you're saying. But the FBI did say they were stalling even though their boss was dead, like someone would perhaps come along and get them out of the sh!t they were in. It just seemed to me they were still being loyal to the agency. I'm not sure why he recorded the conversation, maybe to make sure they wouldn't miss any information Brill would give. Or it might be for the same reason they felt the need to film the encounter with the mob boss. I think the only purpose of the recording in the movie is so that the FBI has evidence for the conspiracy and the audience know the bad guys are going down and Dean and Brill will go free.

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I thought the reason why he was stalling is because it's best to act like he didn't know what his boss was really up to. I think he would say that he recorded it to bring his boss down, if his boss was still alive, and was arrested as well, but since the boss was dead, I thought that is why he decided to act like he didn't know what his boss was up to.

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Well, the FBI guys said they were STILL stalling even though they knew their boss was dead. So apparently they expected them to stall and play innocent if he'd still been alive.

The game was up and Jack Black's character could've saved his own ass if had claimed right then and there that he recorded his boss to expose him.

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But I don't get it though. If Black did not record his boss to expose him, then what was the reason?

You say it's so they can get caught at the end of the movie, but what was the character's personal reason for hitting the record button?

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Like I said, maybe in case they missed something he said or for the same reason they taped the confrontation with the mafia boss. I'm not sure if Jack Black's character really knew what was on the tape and how it related to his boss. Maybe he simply recorded it because that was part of his job. I don't know. It's just that if he recorded it to expose his boss, admitting to that when he was caught would've been the smart thing to do.

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I thought he was admitting to it though. In the interrogation, Black says "We were their for technical support, and we had no idea--" then the scene cuts away, and we do not hear the rest of what he says. I thought that the rest of that sentence would be "We had no idea, that our boss was involved in a conspiracy to murder, and trying to cover it up. This is why I recorded the conversation, when I got suspicious".

I thought that that is where he was going with it maybe.

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But that wouldn't really be stalling like the FBI agents said, it would basically be telling the truth, certainly as far as the FBI knew. He doesn't answer the agent's question directly, it seems to me he was trying to deflect. He also says (unconvincingly) that he thought it was a training operation. No need to say that, he could just as well say he knew it was real but wanted to collect evidence once it got out of hand. I think the movie would've presented him in such a way if the idea was that he recorded it to bring down his boss. But my impression was that he was trying to say that they had no idea whatsoever about what was going on.

But again, I don't really know why he recorded it. I never really thought about it and just assumed it was part of his job. But because of the fact that Reynolds never gave him the direct order to record, I find it difficult to say why he did it.

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I guess. It just seems like saying he was recording it for the reason of bringing his boss down, would have been the smarter thing to say. These agents are so smart, yet decide to stall.

Unless saying that they had no idea what was going on was a smart move as well?

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I actually agree with you that claiming that would be a smarter thing to do, even if he didn't record it for that reason. I mean, there's no way the FBI is going to believe they had no idea at all about what was going on. They were even mocking them.

I'm not sure if they were actual agents or just NSA employees. It may explain why they were not so smart.

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It would be admissible in court if a lawyer was given it and took on the case. But what lawyer with balls big enough to fit in the court room would sit in front of the judge and explain the case.

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Oh they were, you just ignored the third option. The 17 intelligence agencies (today, as DHS did not exist back then) have a rocky relationship ever since Watergate. Rewind the circumstance mentally, that they have surveilled American citizens, highly illegal before the Patriot Act, and even under said act, a supposedly trustworthy and secret FISA court judge gives the approval to spy domestically on an American citizen.

Ergo, he recorded his boss's wrongdoing with the plan, that in the ideal case he can get his hands on the recording, and has to answer before a military tribunal, he can blackmail higher ups into getting him out of the mess, since Reynolds had bosses too. That's why he stalled with the FBI to avoid charges of criminal conspiracy, and to pin all blame on Reynolds. His actions are actually in line with that of North in the Iran-Contra hearings, deny any involvement publicly. In real life, many of the people handling sensitive data don't retire, they get retired, so it was a spur of the moment life insurance policy.

I live in the Gordius Apartment Complex, my interior designer was M.C. Escher.

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Except that the FBI guys clearly thought he was not being smart for stalling while Reynolds was dead. So I'm not sure if that's what's being implied.

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They gave each other alibis as to what they did in the truck (and overall, being the only survivors) and with Brill gone, they did not have to admit to anything beyond what authorities can prove. If a federal law enforcement employee gets charged, they're represented by a government lawyer, so the character's motivation might have been this: even though the FBI seized the evidence, defendants and their lawyers have the right to access it, and he (or both of them) made the Xanatos Gambit, that their lawyers will know, for who they actually work for, and press the top brass into giving them immunity by painting the picture, that Reynolds had hijacked a routine training, and the black ops guys worked for Reynolds, not the NSA.

The tactic would have worked, since federal law enforcement agencies don't like external probing, and would stonewall the other agency. Just remember, when the ATF was forced to reveal just what went wrong in Fast and Furious, and they submitted a 900-page document, that was mostly redacted, and that was post-9/11 and to the Congress. The truth is, that the CIA and the NSA has a condescending relationship toward the FBI, and it comes as no surprise, that they aren't keen to share any intel with the Counterintelligence or the Counter-terrorism unit of the FBI despite the Patriot Act practically forcing them to. They view the FBI since Watergate as cops view internal affairs.

In context the FBI guys have thought he wasn't smart for stonewalling, but that's just forgetting how 18 minutes are missing from the Watergate tapes (by "accident) or how North claimed to not recall anything. They aren't sorry for doing it, they're sorry for being caught, and FISA has established a wall they seemed unnecessary to work efficiently. The problem is, that RICO still managed to get the right guys without the need to spy on every Italian Americans, and they don't accept this, because they're not detectives, and so they fail to make to the right connections. Reynolds claimed to not being interested in who does coke or cheat on their wives, but the character of Black is actually the closest to outed NSA agents who rather listened to private internet porn (or played World of Warcraft) rather, than actually follow up on suspected or verified terrorists.

I live in the Gordius Apartment Complex, my interior designer was M.C. Escher.

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I don't think it really matters what happened or happens in real life. Jack Black and the other tech guys were presented as rather silly and his behavior during the interrogation together with the reaction of the FBI guys only seemed to confirm that. He may have started recording because he was panicking, but I don't think he had this whole preconceived plan to take down his bosses.

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Within the universe, the relationship between government agencies have closely resembled actual life.

I get momentarily panic, but their actions in the interrogation room was calculated, they banked on the NSA covering their own hide, and save them in the process.

I live in the Gordius Apartment Complex, my interior designer was M.C. Escher.

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I'm afraid I have to disagree with you. Like I said, the tech guys specifically are portrayed as rather foolish and I don't really see anything in that interrogation scene that suggests otherwise. Their behavior doesn't seem calculated to me. I don't think the FBI guys would've mocked them like they did if that's what the movie was implying.

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As soon as I saw the word "Accidentally", I knew not to take this thread seriously.

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