Learning languages fast
In the beginning when they are at the camp fire Antonio's character magically learns to speak and understand the Norse language. I wish it was believable
shareIn the beginning when they are at the camp fire Antonio's character magically learns to speak and understand the Norse language. I wish it was believable
shareIt was a long boat ride, and I seem to be picking up foreign languages at an above average pace but there are wonderfully gifted people that learn languages with ease. I am jealous of them.
Also, as I recall he was a poet. That may show a predisposition to being good with/able to learn a new language.
I would not be surprised if someone in that position had learned the basics of a language, how to communicate in every day life. But how would he connect words like chaste, noble and bastard to their true meaning, by only listening? You see someone asking for something, he's given food. You understand that the word probably meant food or hungry. But you hear people talking about someone being chaste or noble - it could mean anything. I don't believe anyone would learn words like that just by listening for a while. Even babies are taught language and it takes years for them to have such extended vocabulary! And saying how Allah is greatest and so on - why would the Norse have been saying that verse often enough for him to learn? No believable.
Wait! Does this also mean putting out doesn't get you love?
A highly intelligent individual, exposed to people speaking a language for MONTHS.. Yes.. Magic.
shareMy only problem with the languages in this movie is that Ibn Fadlan needs to rely on a translator and apparently doesn't know a single word in Latin or Greek (or anything else for that matter). Very unlikely. But then again, if he hadn't needed a translator, we wouldn't be treated to Omar Shariff...
"Occasionally I'm callous and strange."
I am sure he would become familiar to many slang languages/words without needing a translator. And from there he could have put other words in context of their actions and made an educational assumption of their meanings.
shareTo properly represent his status within the royal court, he'd have at least one assistant. Even if he could speak their language perfectly it wouldn't be proper to address them directly, more "proper" to speak through an interpreter.
This is a characteristic that carries through to this day, typically with politicians or representatives of nations as in the UN. There is a famous scene in history when an American ambassador asks a soviet representative not to wait for a translation since he knew he understood English perfectly well (I believe it was during the Cuban missile crisis).
Back to the 13th Warrior. Once he'd left his home, Ahmed realised he'd nobody to talk to and was left in the dark; he had to learn their language. This is something people can do within the time frame of the film pretty easily. The most common words in English are the, a, etc. Finding their equivalence is fairly straightforward, then you look toward nouns then adjectives, e.g. "the something is something" later becomes "the weather is cold" or whatever.
In the film, by the time he reaches the north-men's land, he knows enough to get by, but often has to have new words explained.
plus he was supposed to be a royalty and poet, he's already good with language and must've some experiences with other cultures/languages given his position in the court. the middle east was a flourishing cultural, intellectual and trade hub sitting right between europe and asia, it was not the intellectual wasteland like now.
shareThe story you relate with the ambassador and the Russian representative was also played up in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country when Chang (Christopher Plummer) is interrogating Captain Kirk.
CHANG: Indeed the record shows that Captain Kirk once held the rank of Admiral and that Admiral Kirk was demoted for taking matters into his own hands in defiance of regulations and the law. Do you deny you were demoted for these charges, Captain? Don't wait for the translation. Answer me now!share
Not all languages have words for 'the' and 'a'. Latin for example can have whole sentences made out of just one single word each. Arabic also has a lot of different rules.
What you're saying is only true in case of languages from the same group. For Dutch people it can be quite easy to learn German, for Italians, Spanish is not too hard and people from Czech Republic don't have much difficulties learning Polish.
But Arabic and Old Norse are different in too many ways. The only way Banderas' character would be able to learn the languages as quick as he did is if he basicly already knew the language and just needed to get used to the dialect.
I wish it was clearer from the editing that he learned it over a long period though. It's not hard to understand why people might think he did so overnight.
shareIt's reasonably clear that it was over more than one night. However, what is also reasonably clear is that he didn't practice speaking with anyone; he simply began expressing himself fluently in a language he had never practised.
shareAside from the journey being longer than assumed (though still extraordinarily a short period of time to acquirena language), Ibn was a scholar versed in several languages. It also helped that Russ or Nordic are Indo European languages so he didn't have to be immersed in a completely alien language family.
shareIt seemed to me he learned their language over many weeks of campfires as he listened to them speak.
shareI concur. It seems like a lot of people think he picked it up in one day. I've watched this movie many, many times and I get that it's a long journey and every night around the campfire the Vikings are telling the same stories. That's one of the reasons he's able to pick up the language, besides being smart, educated and a poet. He hears them telling the same stories over and over, which helps since he begins to piece together the words since he hears the same story every night. It's not unbelievable that someone would be able to learn a language like that in a matter of months.
shareIt's about 3500 miles from Baghdad to Norway (one of the map graphics in the movie indicate that Ahmed Ibn Fahdlan initialy left from Baghdad but met up with the Vikings at a camp (in Tartar Territory, which could be a river base in Turkey which flowed out to the Mediterranean Sea.) From there he traveled by horseback with them to Norway, so lets call it 2500 miles. Since no one runs their horse at full gallop on long trips, they walk the horses and they must break to make camp, hunt for food, etc. I gauged their travel distance at between 10-15 miles a day (more if they have to go through rough terrain and mountains). That's about six months of language immersion. I also assume that being the only literate person in the group, Ahmed Ibn Fahdlan took WRITTEN NOTES which helped him compile his own dictionary. Clever people with a knack for languages can pick up languages when they're dropped into a foreign land for six months. Nothing magical about it. :D
Dr. Kila Marr was right. Kill the Crystalline Entity.share
It is entirely possible.
The character in this film was an extremely intelligent man, most likely knew the rudiments of the language, one of the men already spoke Latin and could help him, and he listened very intently.
There are people who have a very keen sense for languages, but learning the entire language in one night is impossible. Languages are too complex to fully comprehend in that short of time. He could have gotten the basics to be able to comprehend what they were saying, but to have a conversation is very unrealistic.
shareAmplified Silence: He did not learn the language in on night, he learned it during many nights of their journey. It was just the way this was expressed in the movie.
Wait! Does this also mean putting out doesn't get you love?
I found it believable enough, especially the way it was portrayed. The scene started with him hearing it like babble but as words were repeated they came into focus for him, so to speak. It was well done.
Some people are very good at languages, he was immersed with them for a long time and he had nothing else to do.