Why did she kill her children? At first I thought it was because she had mixed children (due to rape) and the white man came to get them, because he was their biological father. I know... it sounds idiotic, but to me that seemed to be the only reason why the guy would cry.
~I'm a white boy but my neck is red, I put Miracle Whip on my Wonder Bread: Scary Movie III~
She killed Beloved, and tried to kill all of her kids becase she did not want them to be slaves. I think the quote was "rather them live in heaven than hell on earth" All of her kids were Halle's. I think the tear was for his lost property.
sharealot of slaves killed their children for fear of them living a horrible life (being sold away, beaten, raped etc.)but the slave owner was only crying because he had lossed his property.
shareI agree with you about why she tried to kill her children. It's explored much deeper in the novel. But whilst Schoolteacher crying is not in the novel, I believe it's because he is moved by the trauma of her actions. It shows that whilst he is an 'animal' towards his slaves, he also has some compassion; ironically he shouts: "Animal!" at Sethe holding Beloved before storming out. This shows the white slave owner mentality that they embedded the notion that slaves were 'animals' into the slaves' minds, but when they did act in what could be perceived as a brutal, bestial manner, the slave owners rebuke them for it.
shareThe kids father was black. His name was Halle who was her husband but was tortured to death. She tried to kill the kids to save them from the horrors of enslavement.
shareOkay I will accept that. Many mothers threw their children overboard on the slave ship as they made their unfortunate trip to America. I do not doubt that this happened often but what does this have to do with a pregnant girl on the front porch of a delapidated house?
shareFrom what I've known, Beloved's only purpose in coming back to her mother was to cause her as much pain as she had endured when she was killed as a baby. It even seems to me that Beloved was doing everything to hurt Seth:
Acting bad and just being a terror child in general, ruining Seth's relationship by getting pregnant by her man, ruining Seth's life by making her waste all of her money on sweets and junk, turning Denver against her mother...
I believe the "Pregnant on the Porch" scene was symbolic of Seth dragging the secrets of her past and Beloved out into the light instead of continuing to hide it.
That's what I think anyway.
pianocellolove.... you really can't seem to get past the naked girl, can you?
(as it is a reoccuring theme in your posts)
I know it may seem this way, dbodak. I suppose the whole movie just angers me. The naked girl was just so crazy to me and I suppose it was the so called 'straw that broke the camel's back' . I have always respected Morrison's work but this was disappointing. I love knowledge and I like for things to make sense. To present such craziness into a work that makes African Americans look, talk and act like embarrasing mental ward cases angers me. Plenty of African Americans have suffered mentally due to mistreatment but ghosts? Maybe in a sci fi movie (I've said this before too), but in this format? I would love to ask Toni what the heck was she thinking and what was she trying to prove when she wrote this? I was looking for answers dbodak. Thanks for the observation.
share
Sorry pianocellolove, I've read other posts you've made on this topic, and I have to say, that I disagree with you. I don't think Toni Morrison is depecting African Americans in an embarrasing way. Her novel is not trying to be realistic but symbolic. Sethe is a slave woman who prefers to see her children dead before allowing them to suffer what she went through being a slave. Beloved is not a real human being or a ghost, she is a representation of her suffering. The "encarnation" of her guilt, which is completely corrupting and degradating. Can you imagine anything worse than a loving mother killing her own child even if it is to save him/her from something worse? I think that Morrison is trying to make readers undestand the barbaric dynamics of slavery, the complete degradation thar results from it. On the other hand, Denver is a representation of the future, the embodiment of those who were able to survive that terrifying period.
I hope I made myself clear.
[blue]]I live in a world of words that creates a world of things JM Coetzee[/blue
You merely expressed what the novel meant to you farly well here. That in and of itself should have no baring in trying to "make yourself clear" to me or anyone else.
That last statement you made was very rude, condescending and unnecessary.
PCL
I didn't mean to be rud. It is just that I am not a native English speaker so I was really hoping my statements were clear in a language that is not my own.
Sorry
[blue]]I live in a world of words that creates a world of things JM Coetzee[/blue
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Like the previous posters said, Sethe thought the guy was coming to enslave them again and she thought death was better for her children than lives as slaves.
I saw this movie in theater when it came out, and just today watched about half of it again on TV. Unfortunately, the half I saw did not include that flashback, so I may be wrong on this part. In my memory, the man was not coming to reclaim Sethe as a slave. I don't remember why he was there, only that it was a misunderstanding. He cried because he was so shocked that Sethe would try to kill her own children. He may have been a slave owner, but this was probably the most horrifying thing he had ever seen, and he had to know that it was because Sethe was so terrified of him that she did it.
Sethe called him "school teacher," a reference I didn't understand because I missed the first part of the film. But, I got the impression that he was coming to take her children away - that's why one of the slave catchers said "nothing to reclaim here" after the baby was injured. But it also looked like they originally planned to take Sethe - they had chains and ankle cuffs hanging from their saddles.
I think, from Sethe's point of view, it didn't matter what that man intended with her children. The point is that once they became slaves even a "good" owner could do whatever he wanted to her little girls. Rape, torture, sale, sell off their children someday. She could not see that happen. Remember, she does not know that the Civil War will free the slaves eventually. She has absolutely no legal recourse, she is nothing in that society but an ex-slave.
What strikes me as ironic is that this Schoolteacher, a slave owner, has the gall to call Sethe an animal when he is a disgusting excuse for a human being.
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Everything you want to know about the movie (and more!) is in the book. All of Sethe's children belong to Halle, her husband. The only time you see him, however, is in Paul D's dream. He's the one spreading butter on himself.
Sethe ran away because she wanted a better life; to be free, like every slave yearned for. She got the chance to run, and she did. As we know how slavery goes, a slaveowner wants his property back. Of course Schoolteacher went to catch Sethe and his children. In his mind and according to the law, they belonged to him. They were his possessions. Also, if you saw a seemingly-passive slave killing her own children, would you want her back? If she can do that to something she loves, what could she do to something she hated, like Schoolteacher?
Schoolteacher cried because he was shocked by the creature he created. He realized this is what happens when you treat slaves as animals like he did instead of like humans like Mr. Garner, the deaceased owner of Sweet Home.
Hope it helps.
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I just wanted to tie that to the ending. When Sethe goes after the white man who is coming to pick up Denver, Mr. Bodwin. In that scene Sethe has changed to the point where no one is going to take Beloved away from her. After that Beloved disappears because Sethe has separated herself from her again but this time in protection.
shareWow, that makes the ending make so much more sense. I assumed it was a flashback of sorts to when Schoolteacher came but I didn't understand why at that point Beloved disappeared. That makes sense.
sharehey drama angel!
I agree w/ you about the details in the book filling in the movie's gaps, but I think just for the other posters, its good to remind them when Oprah (as Sethe) says that her plan was to kill them all so they could all be together on the other side.
However, i don't think that schoolteacher ever changed or realised the result of his own actions. In the book, he blames one of his own nephews for whipping her too hard, not himself for writing down her "animal" traits, getting her nephews to "steal her milk", and so on. I think she was seen as undesireable b/c he still viewed her as an animal- one that was not fit to breed. In his mind, he probably saw Sethe as an "animal" who had gone crazy (just as the sow that eats her young in the book) from mistreatment or would further use his encounter with her as a reason to maintain slavery.
I think you have a problem with knowing who and what you are talking about.
PCL