I just finished watching this documentary. I'm a big left wing liberal, very anti-religious, an agnostic, close to an athiest, college educated, anti-gun.
I'm not surprised that any presidency, sect of gov't (republican or democrat) would kill people at any expense and then i'm not surprised that the gov't. would lie. Our gov't. does what it wants to and will continue to dictate policy no matter who runs it.
I think it's awful that people and children were killed. It's hard to watch the FBI/ATF officials lie during the court hearings.
One might think, "Why would a Democrat presidency be behind hurting people?" Essentially, the Reno/ATF/FBI encounter sounds like the doings of someone who is a pro-military, hardcore, macho Republican war-monger, George W. Bush supporter. We all should realize that Bush is a moron and will invade any country. I hate Bush and I hate the war in Iraq. I like Clinton, but I understand that he and Reno were most likely behind the Waco incident. The point remains that any left or right wing could kill children if it means the gov't. not giving into its policy of dictating to others.
My opinion of the whole thing: I'm anti-religious and anti-gun. I love porn, rap music, the ablity to create music, art, film, and I hate the suppression of gay rights while censorship drives me crazy. I believe in going to college, getting an education, having fun and doing whatever you want.
So, you might think I support free will of doing what you please, as shown by the Davidians. But I can't support any group of morons who take their families and move themselves into a crowded home, while spewing moronic religious crap, meanwhile collecting guns, rifles and grenades for some stupid reason.
A smart person lives their life correctly and doesn't risk their life based on god. To put yourself and kids at risk b/c of god is stupid. These people could have moved themselves out of harm's way and would not have been killed.
But, they stupidly kept themselves there to support their love of religion and guns. They got themselves killed. Any smart adult would realize that if the gov't. is invading your church, you'd better leave NOW. Our gov't. does NOT negotiate and you cannot believe what they say.
Your best bet is to not endanger your life. Only relgious morons would risk their lives in order to protect their religion. If someone told me our gov't. was coming with guns, I'd run away days in advance. Why? Because I'm intelligent and college educated, not a moron who bases their values on the teachings of some book called a bible, which has stories about people healing each other without medicine and other impossible acts: sleeping in a whale, rising from the dead, Jack's magic beans, etc.
The Davidians are responsible b/c they put themselves in harm's way. They have the right to do whatever they want, but as a journalist, I have the right to disseminate my view of how stupid the Koresh-followers acted.
There are plenty of religious churches in this country that will never have to worry about being invaded and killed? Why? While I hate religion and all aspects, I will concede that a normal church has singing, praying and people talking in a civil manner.
The Davidians developed a cult with GUNS in a private compound. That's not exactly civil. Legal, yes...but it certainly would make me nervous if I knew my neighbors were shooting guns and yelling out the teachings of God. Yikes!
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20 years ago
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FilmTx
20 years ago
I seriously hope that there aren't many more cops out there like you. Remember what it means "to serve and protect". Nobody gives you the right to jump ahead and judge these people as "religious crazies" and nobody ever "deserves to burn". I've read some of your other posts, because I didn't believe you were a real police officer. I have come to realize now, that you are, due to your HOSTAGE post. But I don't believe that you had intercourse with Hilary Swank. You could never prove that, because it's your word against ours. Much like how the Davidians could never prove that they did not have "grenades" and other weapons because as you said "it was documented..." but that's by the FBI. Them saying that they saw it is like you saying that you're physically attractive enough to bone Hilary Swank (because there's no way that you have the intelligence to hold a conversation with her). See... if I wanted to say that I didn't have grenades, and the FBI said that I did and that they have them and then they never displayed them or pictures of them to anybody, then they win. It's not a good system.
As to the one ATF member that you saw killed. I'm sorry, but I'm going to say so what. Five ATF members lost their lives. A small sacrifice when you slaughter 85 Americans. Remember from this film, one thing that the hostage negotiator himself said to Koresh "you have to realize that these guys, jumping out of helicopters and driving in tanks, these guys are of a different mindset than you and I. They never get to use this stuff, they're just excited." OH MY GOD! This is no justification. This is precisely the attitude that lead to the prisoner abuse in Iraq. Hell, this is the attitude that lead to Iraq itself.
As far as your complaint to seeing violence against police in films. Maybe if the police didn't see themselves as better people than the rest of us, then violence against them wouldn't be so significant. You are concerned about violence against police? How about violence against human beings?
Why was it that the Texas Rangers were the only members of any organization that blamed the FBI? Even the Tarrant County Sheriff says "they destroyed the crime scene, that's just not the way we do things".
Police always want to be seen as heroes, but many of them aren't. See, firefighters are heroes. They risk their lives to save people. They do not use lethal force to save people. Police are enamoured with their own power. San Antonio police, 13 indicted in 2000 for selling fake coke. Many more are known to look the other way for coke dealers. Dallas cops, Chiefs forced to resign, cops in 2002 in trouble for assisting with drug deal. 2004, Indictments for embezzlement. The fact that any department in any major city has to have an internal affairs division says enough. This just isnt the right state to be a cop. The lone star mentality leads to an 'every man for himself' attitude.
I'm sorry, but I will always believe what the VISUAL evidence proves to me. Not to mention, in the trials, you hear who is answering politically and who is answering what they believe. Always listen to what others believe and always be skeptical when listening to what they want you to blieve. You can usually tell the difference.
Now, I have one suggestion. Watch the Wire. This is the most intelligent cop show I've ever seen. The cops are legitimately smart here. When their bosses decide not to do the right thing, its because they don't want the extra work. I have learned one thing from the wire. Not that cops are corrupt. I learned that some cops are still good. They're just harder to find because the corrupt ones like to push them into sectors where they don't belong.
Good luck and be careful out there whenever your wisdom and ethics come back to you.
By the way, you want to see religious crazies, look at Catholics and Christians. What a bunch of nuts.
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twistedmetalnut
20 years ago
Hey, wait!! I'm a cop from Waco!! No... wait.. I was a ATF agent and I was at the front line!!! I saw it all, I SWEAR!!!!
Cut the BULL SH!T!! No one on this board has anything 'special insider info' that the movie makers didn't have. The whole thing is just screaming "COVER UP"! You have to be a complete ignorant fool to say "ahh, gee... it was dem crazy foke in da building.." There is nothing you can say to these facts.
But you have to admit, it is kind of convenient the ATM/FBI loses every piece of evidence that can hurt their case. How the hell do you lose a steel DOOR!?!?
My favorite part of the movie, was towards the end. Some guy was trying to defend all of the AFT/FBI agents. I dont have an exact quote, but it when along like this...
"you can't be police officers, and these guys defending the AFT/FBI are all older and wiser then me. So, we better just listen to them and agree with everything they say simply because they are high ranking officials."
Do I even have to say anything about this statement?
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FilmTx
20 years ago
You need to watch HBO's the Wire, it will change your life.
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thecaptaineast
20 years ago
Vorpalcarrot,well put.
But isn't that "A loaf of bread,a jug of wine and thou beside me?"
O rare you quoting from something other than Omar Khayyiam's (sp) "The Rubiyat?"
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nc_armed_terrorist
19 years ago
i anxiously await the arrival of the fbi's hrt to your home. will you have a defense when they shoot without provocation? will you have fire fighting capabilities when they burn your home to the ground as they have with many "standoffs"?..........
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