Issue with the ending


I read somewhere that plutonium is the most toxic substance known to man. Like a particle the size of a pinpoint is enough to be fatal. In the movie they prevent the bomb from going nuclear, but the relatively small conventional explosion should have scattered small bits of plutonium all over the area. So they save the city from a nuclear explosion by turning it into a 'dirty bomb'. It seems they a) could have come up with an ending that deals with this or b) At least mentioned the radiological danger in passing at the end.

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You are right.

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I stand (partially) corrected. But somebody could have said something to the effect of "Phew, plutonium is left in one piece! No need for ABC suits..." Then again, that would spoil the flow of the narrative, as they say.

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Actually, no you are not right. First off a weapons grade core of plutonium is not dangerous to hold. I wouldn't sleep with it for years, you might go sterile, but it is perfectly safe to pick up and hold, toss around, do whatever.

Second, it's a dense metal. The amount of explosive required, to cause critical mass (assuming it's detonated properly by implosion or the shotgun method) isn't that much by conventional standards. You wouldn't get a wide spread dispersion and that's not counting the fact that there is a very good chance that most of the core would remain in tact.

There have been real incidents in which nuclear war heads have been subjected to massive conventional explosions. This includes one incident when a missile detonated in the silo (by the fuel) and the warhead was thrown some thirty miles away thru the air. Believe it or not the warhead was found servicable and intact.

The last thing you'd want to use for an R Bomb (dirty bomb) is the actual weapons grade material for a real nuke. For something like that you'd be a lot better off finding a liquid that is contaminated. Nuclear cores as I said before, are dense metal.

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Well I forgot to mention that the minute amount of
plutonium I was talking about would have to be
ingested in some way.
As for the rest of your post ..... I stand corrected.
Thanks.

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Actually, you are not 100% correct.

Weapons grade plutonium is very dangerous, inhaled it can increase the risk of cancer significantly

Yes, there is not much risk handling the explosive wrapped core, there is quite a bit of layering between it and the actual fissile material, but the actual plutonium in it is very dangerous.

Also density does not equal rigidity or the hardness of a material. Lead is a very dense metal but is very mailable and easy to break apart.

Your example of the Titan missile exploding in its silo is correct, but that's because the warhead DID remain intact, and none of its primaries misfired.

Things like that do not always work out that well. In 1966 a B-52 collided with a tanker over the Spanish coast, dropping four hydrogen bombs into the ocean and along the coastline. None of them fully detonated, but some did have their safety's fire and the resulting explosions spread highly radioactive plutonium and uranium (from the third stage of the weapon) all over the area resulting in a massive clean up operation.

During Operation Dominic, the Bluegill Prime, and Bluegill Double Prime tests resulted in contamination of Johnston Atoll from non-nuclear explosions and nuclear warheads.

There were also dozens of safety tests done at the Nevada test site to test primaries that misfire, I'm sure you can find all sorts of information about contamination from those tests.

The biggest goof in The Peacemaker is though at the end has to be the total lack of any detonators on the explosive lenses, and also that the count of explosive lenses looked fairly low...

Anyways yea, plutonium is bad stuff.

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There WOULD be SOME Radiological contamination from the implosion of the primary, even with one of the "lenses" removed. As was said--WG PU IS pretty dense but in a REAL fission primary, the lenses WOULD fragment the core somewhat, and spread SOME "fallout" particles around.

BUT...

There was NOT enough explosives to function as a REAL "dirty bomb" which normally is just a LARGE amount of NON WG material, hot enough to Irradiate an area, but NOT able to be fissile--and a large amount of explosives is placed with it, to totally turn it into a cloud of radioactive dust, that is then carried about by the wind.

I guess the idea of the movie was "better a little fallout..than a several KT nuclear blast" from the "primary"(which was NOT a very realistic depiction of one, as stated before).

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The Federation of American Scientist blog located here gives a good perspective about the quality of media coverage on the threat of dirty bombs. And this physicist with the FAS says that weapons grade material is what is necessary even for a dirty bomb and the media's coverage of the threat of terrorist making a dirty bomb from poor-quality, non-weapons grade material is usually "at best, uninformed, and at worst, downright wrong."

Here is a link to a list of FAS blogs on the dirty bombs.
http://www.fas.org/blog/ssp/?s=dirty+bomb

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good reply....did you recurve/recarve pinocchio's nose....hands you some tritium ....

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Yes and no. You could hold plutonium and it would not cause you any harm you are quite correct in that as it is an alpha emitter. However just because it is a very dense element does not follow that it can be dispersed by an explosion and what in effect would have actually occurred had the film been a real event is a 'dirty bomb'. The whole localised area would have become contaminated with contaminted particulate matter. In the marine environment it has been demonstrated that alpha-emtitting radio-isotopes such as plutonium associate and bond with fine grain mud and clay particles, which no matter how high their atomic mass can easily be picked up and transported by even the lightest of breezes. The open cuts that Kidman and Clooney received in the blast would have certainly received some atomised particulates of plutonium in them and that is when such alph-emitters become so toxic. Because on the skin they are harmless but in the body they have so little energy they become trapped in individual cells bouncing around and destroying parts of the cells DNA leading to mutations and mutations to deadly cancers.

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The point here is not that a missile engine (sited some metres from the warhead) exploded, or that a bomb was in a train wreck or some other trauma.

There was no protection or distance between the plutonium and the explosive.

Remember that what exploded was the very explosive that is sited next to the plutonium in order to force the plutonium particles together and trigger critical mass. The removal of one part of the explosive would they hoped mean critical mass would not be reached, but the core would have been destroyed and scattered across the city.

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Blight45, they do move the bomb into a smaller room with less windows to help contain the blast.

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I always figured I knew a lot more about nukes than the average bear (ex: gun type vs. implosion type), but where do you come by information like that?

There was this thing, and then the gun didn't have an owner anymore.

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