Plot holes?


Hey guys,
So I have seen this movie quite a bit but had not seen it in a while so I decided to watch it last night. There's some plot holes that I hope some of you guys can fill for me.
At the end when Jackie has the 500k with her and she goes to the mall, why does she bring the extra money with her? The cops only know about the 50k so why does she bring it all? Also, why does max have to pick the bag up in the mall? They could have done this outside or before. One last question is wouldn't the cops have reviewed the security cameras when Meg picked stoled the bag? If they did they would have seen her go into the change room with one bag and return with only one bag. And then they would have seen Max leave with the other bag.
I need some clarity. Is there an answer for these holes??

reply

That is a very good question I never considered before. We knew they'd be on Jackie from the time she stepped off the plane, so she couldn't physically meet up with Max. But she could've left the payload in her car for Max to retrieve after she (and the Feds) had gone inside the mall. He could've driven away with it without ever having to go inside. Cutting out a big chunk of the movie ending.

But maybe Max was there for her protection, too, in case something went wrong, she got arrested again, or Ordell pulled another fast one. He was the only one she trusted.

========
D, *beep* D! Learn to speak English first!

reply

Thanks for your input. I guess the protection thing makes sense. What about the cops reviewing the cameras in the store? Are we supposed to believe there were no cameras? Like that's the first thing the cops would do. And when they did they would noticed they were one bag short until Max went in there.
Every time I watch it this always bothers me but I always thought maybe I missed something.

reply

I don't know exactly when this movie takes place, maybe someone else knows and can clarify, but it has an older 70's feel to it, so, if my assumption is accurate, then it's actually perfectly plausible that the mall wouldn't be covered in surveillance cameras.

reply

It's supposed to be set in 95

reply

Well damn, I don't really get a 90's vibe from it at all, especially seeing as Cherry and Brown were still reffering to cassettes instead of CD's. Guess I'll have to take your word for it.

reply

Actually, Max and Jackie DO discuss CD's when Jackie tells Max that she can't afford to replace her collection. That said, they show Max buying a Delfonics cassette tape, so the confusion is understandable.

THAT said, they specifically state in the movie that the year is 1995.

Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut.

reply

REALLY? I've seen that movie about 10+ times and never caught that! I thought when talking about replacing her collection she was referring to vinyl...I'm going to re-watch it again tonight to see if I can catch that.

reply

Here you go:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6v6C3lZ9Ic0

Max: You never got into the whole CD revolution?
Jackie: Oh, I got a few, but I can't afford to start all over again. I mean, I've invested too much time and money in my albums.
Max: Yeah, but you can't get new stuff on records.
Jackie: I don't get new stuff that often....


Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut.

reply

Yeah, I caught it.Thanks for the link and quote, bruv. Still kind of stupified I never noticed it before o.O

reply

Yeah, I caught it.Thanks for the link and quote, bruv. Still kind of stupified I never noticed it before o.O[quote]



In The Deep House/Disco Community, producer Trus'me sampled the vinyl dialogue & turned it into a raging classsic!

here you go:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJcoH11avoE

reply

Letter to the Firm was playing when Max went in to buy the Delfonics tape. Defo no rap music in the 70's

I was gonna let you *beep* me, but I got my rag, and I know how you hate a mess

reply

The morning after she's released from jail when Max shows up to retrieve his gun she took from the glove compartment. He sits while she makes coffee and she puts on music. They discuss CD's then when she's putting on an LP. I think it screams mid 90's to be honest, especially with the Kangaroo hats.

reply

[deleted]

Throughout the 90s, everything was available on both CD and cassette. Even new releases.
Cassettes were cheaper, cassette players were cheaper, plus CD players in cars were rare, as were portable CD players (which were also very expensive).
Even in the early 2000s most new cars only had tape decks. So for me it's not so out there that Max would buy a cassette.

reply

No plot holes at all. You just need to rewatch this sequence.

1. Jackie is with the ATF and FBI guy marking the bills (the original full $500K+)
2. When Jackie enters the women's dressing room she pulls out the books and the extra bag from her purse and starts filling the ringer bag with the books on the bottom then topping them off with $40K-$50K bricks to make the bag looks full, as well as an extra $10K for Melanie if you recall their dialogue exchange.
3. Jackie then puts the full $500K in another bag covering it in towels, but leaves it in the dressing room on purpose to make it appear that someone else forgot it and left it there.
4. After paying for her suit at the counter she tells the retail clerk that she notices a left bag filled with towels leaving a mental marker in the clerk's head that someone may be coming back for it.
5. Max appears and tells the same clerk that his wife may have left a bag of beach towels in the dressing room and the clerk mentally connects Jackie's observation and assumes he's the legit customer looking for some missing towels.
6. The ATF and FBI guy know NOTHING about Max's involvement, so it was important to play out this exchange to get the money out of Jackie's hands.

I think one observation I took from this sequence was that why did the ATF and FBI guys monitor this exchange from so far away they couldn't observe what was actually going on? I'm not in law enforcement, but most stings that I've read about or observed in documentaries involve surveillance of all parties involved. Now, they do give Jackie heat after the exchange when they find Melanie dead in the parking lot, but she's mostly lucky because they probably suspect Louis as the perpetrator and holder of the missing $500K, not Jackie.

reply

I'm not sure you understood the OP's question. He knows what happened in the movie. He is just questioning - reasonably - WHY those things happened.

Jackie could have taken the $500k out of her bag, and left it in her car, for Max to come pick up out in the parking lot without ever having to go inside and expose himself to being seen, etc. But here is a possible explanation for why that (or something similar) didn't happen:

Michael Keaton and Jackie discuss that there will be eyes on her at all times, EXCEPT in the dressing room. That means (likely) that there would have been eyes on her car, which would prevent her from leaving it there for Max to pick up. She could have potentially left the money somewhere in the airport terminal prior to being met by the cops/ATF (they meet her in the parking lot, remember), but perhaps she just wanted Max - someone she could trust - to have the money while she dealt with the fall out from the "failed" money exchange.

It was set in 1995, so cameras were definitely around. Perhaps they chose that location specifically because it WASN'T covered by security cameras? It would be nearly impossible to do something like that in a mall today, though, precisely because of the cameras.

As to the police/ATF being so far away - they were staged around the food court, where the drop was SUPPOSED to happen. Remember, they thought it was going to be exactly like the first time, the money being given to Sharonda in the food court. Jackie didn't tell them that she was going to be "going shopping." However, someone should have been tailing Jackie from a discreet distance, and watched as she deviated from the plan. Likewise, someone from law enforcement should have been there when she went into the dressing room, and likely would have seen Melanie going in with a bag (contrary to Jackie's story afterword).

It's not a PERFECT, airtight story, but hey...sometimes we have to let things slide a little if we want to enjoy a film.



Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut.

reply

I don't think Jackie could have left the money anywhere else BUT the mall because Keaton had already identified the items to be used, marked and counted the bills. After that she was being tailed save for her trip to the dressing room where Melanie and Louis AND Max were waiting.

Again, the only possible plot hole is why ATF/FBI guy would allow such a lackadaisical operation.

reply

ATF and LAPD. No FBI involvement.

And Keaton did not meet up with Jackie until she was in the PARKING LOT of LAX. Nothing was identified, marked, or whatever until then. She could have left the money somewhere in the terminal, to be picked up by Max (or she just could have come back for it herself).

Further, if anyone was tailing her, why did they stop when she went to the dressing room? I mean, yes, they can't go IN the dressing room, but they can hang around outside, to see Louis dragging Melanie around, Melanie going in the dressing room WITH A BAG, Max going and claiming a bag 2 minutes after Jackie left, et cetera. It's pretty clear that no one was watching her or around her (remember, she came out, looking around frantically, walked all the way to the food court, then called for Keaton, and all the cops ran around the corner IN FRONT OF HER, at the food court, waiting for her to get there) at least from when she got out of her car at the mall parking lot until she went to the food court and called for Keaton.

So, yes, it's a *beep* operation - to the point of being a plot hole.

Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut.

reply

Thanks for all the input guys. I think I can happily look past the Max pick up. Also, the agents aren't FBI and are probably are over their heads so maybe that's why no one tailed Jackie to the dressing room. The only thing that still bugs me is that they didn't check the security cameras. Maybe they were going to and that's why Jackie needed to leave at the end but I wish they made one reference to it.

reply

ATF Ray was an idiot, and was possibly really attracted to and fooled by Jackie.

The reason she took the whole $500K and the $50K was that she was scamming Ordell AND the cops. Ordell wants his $500K so he can take it and get out of Dodge.

Jackie was pulling the long Con on both parties in that she knew that Ordell wouldn't honor the Escrow deposit agreement had she been prosecuted after the failed money exchange AND she was intending for Ordell to be so enraged for stealing his money (using Max as her co-conspirator) that he would come back to kill her so she got Ray and Mark to help her eliminate Ordell once and for all.

It could also be implied that Jackie used Max for all it's worth, right?

But, you're right. Back to the surveillance thing, even for 1995 I find it very hard to believe that Ray and Mark couldn't use surveillance footage to examine past events near/around the dressing room.

reply

Only Ray/Keaton is ATF, the other is LAPD. We just have to assume that there weren't security camera's in that store at that time. Otherwise Jackie's plan doesn't work. Perhaps she CHOSE that store because they didn't have cameras? Who knows. We just have to accept that there weren't any...

Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut.

reply

They didn't mark 500K, she lied to the police and told them she would deliver only 50K, because Ordell got cold feet.
Remember when she put a load of money at the bottom of her bag, covered it with clothes and then put 50K on top? It was for the police to mark.
That is why she could keep 500K, because that money was not marked.

reply

I find it nuts that Michael Keaton would have marked all those bills himself while standing up in the car park hunched over the bag. Even if they were all Benjamins, there would still be 500 of them. Must have taken ages.

reply

None of those are plot holes

reply

No plot holes at all - Jackiie was followed every inch up to the exchange (remember the many cops in the mall?). She couldn't chance doing the exchange anywhere but where it was suppose to take place. Once she took the heat away with her after the exchange with Melanie, Max could go and casually make do with the rest...

As for cassettes, all I can say is that until CDs became ubiquitous in the early 2000s, all 3 supports were in use: i still listened to cassettes in my car in 2004.

reply

Finally, some common sense. Thank you.

Also, for anyone thinking it had a 70s vibe to it, there were occasional uses of mobile phones in case you hadn't noticed.

Just because the soundtrack was retro doesn't mean the action took place in that era.

reply

Also, Ordell Robbie's car had keyless entry which he shows Louis how to use in Max's office.

DISPLAY thy breasts, my Julia!

reply

Ordell's TV at the very start of the film too (Chicks who love guns) looks extremely mid 90's.







reply

It would have been good if during the interview afterwards Michael Keaton had said "unfortunately there's no CCTV to back up your story" for exposition
Ok, even if there were no cameras, she took one heck of a chance that none of the police would follow her into the store, especially when she was in there for so long.
Maybe it was just a very sloppy operation from a young agent. And it could have gone very bad for Jackie if things had gone the other way - if Ordell had someone following Jackie round waiting for the opportune moment to kill her and take the money, there was no protection.
But she uses the slack surveilance to her advantage instead, and I like the way she turns that round on Michael Keaton when he questions her - she says something to the effect of "you didn't tell me what to do if something went wrong did you?!"

reply

I found it surprising that there was not at least one undercover cop in the clothes shop during the hand-off. A woman cop would have been inconspicuous.

"Chicken soup - with a *beep* straw."

reply

something else I've just thought of - cameras or no cameras, did they even question the store clerk? I guess they did because they know she still paid for the suit.
Wouldn't the store clerk have observed that, while Jackie seemed in a hurry and a bit agitated when she came out of the changing room, she still mentioned that someone had left a bag of towels in there? Hardly something you'd do if you'd just been robbed of 50k.
And then literally seconds later someone came along and claimed this missing bag.

reply