MovieChat Forums > Great Expectations (1998) Discussion > Am I the only one thought they were both...

Am I the only one thought they were both selfish and shallow?

posted 17 years ago by sun_scryer
9 replies | jump to latest

Little Finn and Little Estella were ok. They were children.

Grown up Finn and Grown up Estella never seemed to be in love, to me. They were Symbols (tm) to each other, but real love? True love? Soul mates? Lifelong *beep* buddies, maybe; but they were both so shallow and selfish I didn't care. Why does Estelle marry a man she doesn't respect? Why does Finn chase after a woman who comes across as a trophy acquisition and an official pass out of Poor White Trashism (tm)?

Finn is trash. It's an attitude, not an economic level. At least when he was poor, he had a heart.

The final straw was his drunken speech on the stoop calling up to 'Estella', talking about how he'd made a success of himself, and I wanted to slap him. NOTHING he did was on his own. He was never appreciative of the chances he had been given, of the success. He doesn't appear to have any street smarts; he's trying too hard to be worthy enough of sleeping with Estella to notice anyone else around him, or what people may really think about him and his work.

Lustig asks him how much his rent is, and Finn doesn't know. I never got the feeling that Finn stopped and thought 'how much does this cost'? Finn just seemed to assume that what he was given was due to him. He'd 'earned' it.

Finn reminds me of white America's attitudes about itself.

The only time after young Finn when I started to warm up to Grown up Finn was when he took the old Lady's hand in his by the fireplace and placed it over his heart. I would have liked more scenes with Finn and the old Lady. They had chemistry together. I enjoyed anticipating scenes with them together.

Finn and Estella, not so much. There was no love. I guess that's why I was annoyed by them, and the thought of them.

The best characters were definitely Joe, Lustig (!) and even the old Lady had her moments. I even dug the sister more than I dug Grown up Finn and Grown up Estella.

The ending was blah. Two shallow people continue on their shallow ways. What a waste.

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] Devans00 17 years ago

Good summary, sun_scryer. The movie never did adequately explain what was Estella's damage. She partially grew up with Finn and seemed to enjoy being friends with him. So why did she act like her poo didn't stink and always kept him at arms length? If she was such a rebel, she wouldn't care they were from different social groups.

I could understand Finn's story a little better. His sister made a big deal out of visiting Ms. Dinsmoor. So he got a distorted view of the rich and how important they were.

I don't like how he treated Ms. Dinsmoor. True she was a batty old lady, but to dump her like a bad habit when Estella went to school was so wrong. Finn visited her every week for years, she fed him, gave him clothes and spending money, but he couldn't be bothered with keeping in touch with her? He didn't even seem to feel bad that Ms. Dinsmoor's body wasn't found for a month after she died.

Remind me again why we were supposed to like Finn and Estella?

No two persons ever watch the same movie.

[–] boonrepus 17 years ago

we'll, we're not really supposed to look up to either of them as if they were the ideal couple with the perfect relationship. they're both strong in their own way, but primarily they are all very flawed, sort of like us i suppose.

i've not deeply analyzed the movie and do not intend to anytime soon, but from what i've seen, both characters are victimized by the actions of each other and the way they were raised. finn feels that, he can never be worthy of estella, and therefore never takes the initiative to express how he truly feels towards her. to him, estella is a dream; one that he will never attain due to who he is and what he was born with. estella, having been raised to hate men, has always known of finn's affection towards her, yet despite having mutual feelings, she never allows herself to become close with him because she has been taught to fear love. it is for this reason that she constantly appears unhappy both as a child and as a fully grown adult. it is only when she is around finn that she expresses joy or happiness, which of course is immediately abolished the moment she realizes that her feelings towards him may lead to her unimaginable pain (as consistently reinforced by her... fanatical guardian)

but in a way, aren't men like finn? i remember a time not too long ago in my life where i felt very strongly for a woman. however, i believed she was "out of my league". i felt she was the most beautiful girl i'd ever known (a side effect of a typical attraction), she was far more intelligent than me and I could see that she was destined for a life I could never be a part of in my current state. i've always thought poorly of myself, so i felt the only way i could ever have a chance at being with her was to better myself. so i began working out harder, i picked up a book and tried reading for my own enrichment for the first time in my life, began socializing with other women to get a sense as to how i should behave, fixed my relationship with my parents, got a better job (i'm 18 lol), etc etc. why had I done all this? because I felt that this would be the only way for me to ever get a chance with her. i finally get my chance, but i can't even tell her how i feel for her because i'm too scared she will reject me and i'd make a fool of myself.

is this not the way a man behaves when he feels affectionate towards a woman? guys, i'm sure you probably went through something similar to me. ladies, i'm sure you've seen a perfectly good guy with potential mess up because he was too scared to take any initiative.

and what about estella? does she not reflect the actions of a woman who has been damaged? are we (both genders) not prone to judge certain individuals based on our experiences with those that have wronged us in the past?

for those of you thinking "wait estella doesn't seem to have any bad experience with men in the film!", i'm basing this conclusion on the fact that her mind has been heavily influenced by a woman who preaches her hatred for men, so much that she is willing to destroy the happiness of two young lovers simply because of her experience with one man.

so perhaps, finn and estella represent the way we behave in our affairs with those we admire, and we cannot really aspire to be like them or pity them. all we can do is be reminded of how foolish we humans are, how narrow sighted and determined our emotions can make us, and how we can deprave ourselves and other's of a fulfilling happiness simply because of our fears and unwillingness to accept our true feelings towards others. it is love in it's rawest.

[–] ChorusL106 16 years ago

I like this, good job. Awesome.

[–] natakalt-1 17 years ago

I thought that too and that's why I didn't like the movie.

They are good actors but I wasn't convinced about their love either.

I'm reading the book right now page 63 and so far is good, but I'm afraid of not liking the book the same way I didn't like the movie.

[–] sunsethoughts 17 years ago

if you've ever read the book then thats the whole point..they are both flawed and though finn tries to keep getting with her in the end she doesn't know what she wants because she was raised to take and not to give. Finn knows this but he keeps on chasing her believeing she'll change..the book is by far better and it pretty much fits the title. Kind of reminds me of Wuthering heights a couple other characters who were both pretty selfish and shallow o.O

Come To The Dark Side..We Have Cookies And Alcohol

[–] insomniac_rod 13 years ago

Wow, great thoughts from everyone. I also think both were very selfish. I couldn't stand how Finn treated Joe! I hated how he trated Lustig when he was dying. I mean, Finn was SOMEONE because of Lustig! And he could only say something like "well maybe he deserved to die in the Gulf...".

I'm glad he ended up with Estella because both are selfish, dead inside, and do not deserve to love. They are together because nobody else in the world would love them !

"Hate is baggage, life's too short to be pissed off all the time".

[–] CherryBombApocalypse 12 years ago

"Finn reminds me of white America's attitudes about itself."

You're so right. Your post was a total waste. And about the part I quoted: EXCUSE the hell out of me, but WHAT?? WHERE do you get off saying something like that? Crawl back under your rock and stop throwing meaningless jabs at Americans, in the middle of a pitiful, idiotic rant about how you didn't like the movie.

Oder: Wie ich aufhören, sich Sorgen und Liebe die Bombe gelernt!

[–] 12 years ago

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