MovieChat Forums > Gattaca (1997) Discussion > What are people under the impression DNA...

What are people under the impression DNA affects if not intelligence...?

posted 10 years ago by Aelius81
28 replies | jump to latest

Preface: I haven't seen this movie yet, but I watched the trailer to see if I might be interested, and...

The trailer for this movie even starts off with a narrator saying: "In the not too distant future, our DNA will determine everything about us. ... A single drop of blood determines where you can work ... what you're capable of achieving."

Umm, yeah, that's called reality.

Your genetic makeup massively influences your intelligence, personality traits, talents, and so on. I mean, what are people under the impression that DNA even does if not code for myriad proteins that influence everything that goes on in our brain? Do people seriously think the brain just randomly rolls the dice and your intelligence and personality traits and talents are all completely random?

If not, are people instead under the impression that it requires no more intelligence to be a petroleum engineer than it does to be a janitor? Or that pretty much everyone is intelligent/talented enough to do anything?

I have a feeling this movie would irritate me more than entertain me...

[–] yurenchu 10 years ago

Just watch the movie, you won't regret it.

______
Joe Satriani - "Always With Me, Always With You"
https://y2u.be/VI57QHL6ge0

[–] Hythlodaeus 10 years ago

Do you believe in Biological Determinism?

What hump? 

[–] liverpool26 10 years ago

The movie is more about using science to create superior babies so even people who are smart but where born naturally are discriminated against because they're not 'perfect'.

[–] Aelius81 10 years ago

Ahh, that makes it better. Maybe I'll watch it after all! Thanks

[–] andyd-1 10 years ago

A doubt if DNA effects adult intellectual ability as absolutely as you are presuming, I'm sure its got a lot more to do with nurture and stimulus. People don't have DNA for being able to play the violin, it takes years of practice.

'Or that pretty much everyone is intelligent/talented enough to do anything? ' - to some extent, a person of 'normal' intelligence, with study and effort, probably could learn to be petroleum engineer as you mentioned. The same person could probably also be a janitor in some other circumstances.

[–] Aelius81 10 years ago

"A doubt if DNA effects adult intellectual ability as absolutely as you are presuming, I'm sure its got a lot more to do with nurture and stimulus."

It doesn't matter how hard you try to nurture and stimulate your cat to study algebra, it's never going to happen. What on earth do you think causes humans to be intelligent? Fairy dust in our corn flakes? It can't BE anything other than DNA.

"a person of 'normal' intelligence, with study and effort, probably could learn to be petroleum engineer as you mentioned."

And that's where you're wrong.

[–] WyldeGoose 10 years ago

A cat is not a human being.

DNA does not necessarily determine intelligence. All DNA is is a program to make a person, and continually rebuild him; a very complex program sure, but it doesn't matter necessarily if you're the son of Albert Einstein if your upbringing, not to mention other factors that may impair your development, is not particularly good in fostering this. How many geniuses generate offspring that follow in their footsteps, if not exceed them?

Your point is not only fallacious, but it's detrimental thinking. It presumes some people are superior than others by virtue of their breeding, and that if you're not the son or daughter of geniuses or supermen, you won't amount to anything in life no matter how hard you try. History, and life in general, doesn't bear that out. It's an excuse for those who aren't willing to try, and are afraid to fail.

[–] Aelius81 10 years ago

Nobody is claiming that intelligent parents will always produce intelligent offspring. But on average that is the case. And yes, contrary to your unsupported belief, some people are superior to others by virtue of their breeding. Traits run in families, I hate to be the one to break it to you.

And no one is arguing that an intelligent person raised in a horrible environment will beat all the odds and still become a professor. But outside of extreme environmental conditions intelligence is massively heritable. We know this from many studies done on identical twins separated at birth and reared in different environments who show remarkably little difference in intelligence and personality.

To believe otherwise is an excuse for unintelligent people to pretend they have an equal shot at life, or for extreme egalitarians who can't bear to acknowledge they live in a world where not everyone is born with the same blank slate.

[–] yurenchu 10 years ago

We know this from many studies done on identical twins separated at birth and reared in different environments who show remarkably little difference in intelligence and personality.

Source, please?

Please show that this phenomenon has been shown to be a causal effect and not just a correlation.

Also, please show that these separated twins who both became successfull professors (or something) inherited this trait from their biological parents.

______
Joe Satriani - "Always With Me, Always With You"
https://y2u.be/VI57QHL6ge0

[–] GoGoTomaGooooo 9 years ago

You can read a book call Freakeconomic.

[–] yurenchu 9 years ago

You can read a book call Freakeconomic.

As far as I'm aware, Freakonomics by Levitt and Dubner is superficial sensationalist entertainment, rather than real science. And I have no desire to read that book.

______
Joe Satriani - "Always With Me, Always With You"
http://youtu.be/VI57QHL6ge0

[–] baran_erik 9 years ago

Google the twins study at the University of Minnesota.

[–] johnsonium 10 years ago

Notice in the movie how the legitimate health issues that Vincent had a high probability of suffering: bad heart, ADHD, manic depression had nothing to do with Vincent's intellect. He was obviously highly intelligent. Yet, when the detectives were trying to investigate the murder they dismissed the idea of an "in-valid" fooling them as they posited that they wouldn't be smart enough to do so. The pervasive discrimination based on genetic fact regarding physical illness propensity bled into their perception of in-valids' other, unrelated capabilities.

This is one of the most powerful messages of the film. This happens in our society today with systemic discrimination. The people of Gattaca have even more information to be discerning yet cannot help but be blinded by their preconceived notions.

[–] Insomniatic102 10 years ago

Sure genetics of course play a role, but they are absolute. The old saying 10% talent, 90% hard work can still apply. Less intelligence can easily be made for my hard work. A genius without the right surroundings won't do anything with his life either. The danger is in judging people SOLELY by these genetic factors, when they aren't he end all and be all of deciders. This movie shows a world that makes that mistake. Intelligence can be gained, even if you aren't born naturally gifted.

The movie doesn't really seem to concern itself with intelligence when choosing factors. It was more obvious physical properties. Perhaps they hadn't hammered down the science of the genetics behind intelligence either.

[–] hell-cat-1 10 years ago

You are talking absolute nonsense. Environmental factors and upbringing have a massive impact on someone's potential as a human being. Take, for instance, two twins separated at birth destined to be ridiculously intelligent. One gets adopted in a working class area, runs in with the wrong crowd, does drugs, winds up hopeless, etc. This does happen. And the other gets adopted by a wealthy family and winds up being a lawyer, thus fulfilling his potential.

Now, reverse this situation, and have two twins of average intelligence separated at birth adopted into both working and upper middle class families. The working class kid is constantly aware of his circumstances and the destiny that inevitably awaits him, so he tries everything in his power to avoid this. He studies, gets a scholarship and lands an amazing job. The other kid, with proper paid education, could go either way. But, my point is, circumstances have EVERYTHING to do with how someone turns out. The most successful people in history came from nothing. Determination is what brings you success. Someone of average intelligence could go very far if they wanted to, and vice versa.

Neither of my parents are particularly intelligent, yet I have a high IQ and do very well. Explain this to me please. Also, people born with Aspergers are ridiculously intelligent, despite their genetics. You idea is very, very flawed my friend.

This was the entire point that the movie was trying to make, to not let you be defined by your DNA and that anyone cane overcome their weaknesses and setbacks in life to get what they want. And this is very true.

[–] GoGoTomaGooooo 9 years ago

You can read a book call Freakeconomic. IQ has very high heritability.

[–] Chipmaniac 9 years ago

High heritability is not inevitability.

[–] shen-nung 9 years ago

A cat is not a Human being because of its genetic material, your argument is fallacious.

[–] eisphoenix-655-672150 9 years ago

It doesn't matter how hard you try to nurture and stimulate your cat to study algebra, it's never going to happen. What on earth do you think causes humans to be intelligent? Fairy dust in our corn flakes? It can't BE anything other than DNA.

Intelligence isn't solely determined by DNA. I have once read an article where people got their intelligence tested before and after they went on a 3-week vacation, and they were less intelligent when they returned (insert drinking joke here).
Also it doesn't really matter how intelligent a crack baby is supposed to be according to it's DNA, it will still have the IQ of a room plant. Or if the person hasn't had enough food/nutrition while growing up, so that the brain couldn't fully reach it's potential.
Maybe the potential of your brain is determined by DNA, but if you don't have the chance to fully reach this potential, you might still end up as a janitor, even if you could have been a doctor.

Intelligence and personality are greatly influenced by the surroundings of a person while growing up. And even those separated twins studies aren't really that significant, because those separated twins mostly grew up under equal conditions, it's not like one ended up in the ghetto and one was raised by Bill Gates.

[–] johnsonium 10 years ago

If you haven't figured it out already, you misinterpreted the trailer. Here's the quote you posted:

"In the not too distant future, our DNA will determine everything about us. ... A single drop of blood determines where you can work ... what you're capable of achieving."

You assumed, wrongly, that the movie was talking about the DNA itself when in fact it was talking about discrimination within society brought about from genetic engineering.

Your misread was comical. This is why people should never try and draw conclusions about a movie by just watching the trailer.

[–] askebisgaard 9 years ago

I read the thread and hope you've seen the movie since then. I enjoyed it at least.

I can't help but spread the knowledge of human behavioral biology though, since I think it's one of the most important subjects - and should frankly be apart of mandatory education in my opinion. But I'll leave that out of this discussion.

When you say "massively influences", you're not wrong. Of course "massively" is a word often used in exaggeration, to prove a point. But still, I'd recommend the fantastic course by Robert Sapolsky, from Stanford University, on this topic. As he says:

"There's a magnificent, fascinating, nuanced interaction between nature and nurture"

They even put the course from 2010 up on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNnIGh9g6fA&index=1&list=PL848F2368C90DDC3D

[–] bluerisk 9 years ago

I was asking myself if they can also produce a Beethoven or Einstein, or just a perfect human, but no genius one, albeit it was and is these kind of people who pushed the limits of mankind further.

What if we raise the average, but at the cost of the few but most crucial genius' who are beyond the norm.

Ich bin kein ausgeklügelt Buch, ich bin ein Mensch mit seinem Widerspruch.
Conrad Ferdinand Meyer

[–] Technomage001 9 years ago

I'd never base my opinion of a movie based on it's trailer. Often times scenes in the trailer didn't even make it in the movie and a lot of times the trailer is marketing hype which can be very misleading.