MovieChat Forums > G.I. Jane (1997) Discussion > Good movie but managed to make completel...

Good movie but managed to make completely the opposite point


The movie tries to make the argument that militaries should be 100% gender integrated, including allowing women into spec ops, and basically argues that anyone against this is sexist. However, it then proceeds to show exactly why militaries are not ready for this during the film's most powerful scene; the POW training scene.

During the scene, Lt. O'Neal is getting the crap beat out of her by Master Chief Urgayle in front of the male trainees, and he even starts to cut off her pants as if he's about to rape her. He's basically showing exactly what would happen if they were captured for real. O'Neal bravely refuses to break and demands that her comrades don't either.

The problem? During this scene you can clearly see that the male trainees are about to crack from watching this. Now picture if this was real, and women were allowed into spec ops. In a real training exercise, there would be great limits as to what an instructor would actually be allowed to a female recruit as there were certainly limits as to what Urgayle was actually allowed to do to O'Neal as well as limits on how long the trainee could be tortured for.

However, even if real male trainees could withstand this mental torture of a female troop being tortured in front of them for an exercise, if we allowed women into spec ops, and they were captured for real, a female troop would be used the same way. Only now, There would be no limits as to what her captors could do, and certainly no time limits on how long they could, and they would probably not hesitate to do even more brutal things to her, including raping her, continuously in front of the male troops, most likely causing them to crack and subsequently be killed themselves.

"Evidently, madam, you and I differ greatly in our conception of beauty."

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I would like to agree with your point, but I can't. This is clearly a matter of how soldiers regard themselves - as men and women or simply soldiers, which is a question of attitude adjustments. That might take a while, especially for gender-segregated countries (as the US is) but I think it is impotant to ask the question:

Why would it be worse if a prisoner was raped than water-boarded, electrocuted or subjected to some other kind of torture? Technically, a normal rape doesn't cause a lot of physical damage, so why would this be worse? I personally felt it was worse when Jordan had the crap beaten out of her, since that could cause - yep, you guessed it - deeper and more serious injury.

Few women are fit to hold (infantry) combat positions in the armed forces, simply because of the physical strain that is demanded of the soldiers and a physical fact of life is that men have more muscle mass than women. That doesn't mean that females can't fly aircrafts, drive tanks or hold support positions, but how many women could for example serve as loaders on a 155mm howitzer?

However, I have nothing but the outmost respect for females that do manage to take combat positons in the infantry.

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Women are now deploying and patrolling with Special operations forces as cultural support teams. I know its not new news but it seems to have many benefits.

I think some level of integration is needed. I'd begin with; i.e. female medics with forward deployed troops. Bad things happen in war, male or female it is terrible to watch a friend/comrade being hurt, shot, tortured....

Do not be a victim, Do not be a perpetrator,above all, Do not be a bystander

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So the soldier can handle a male comrade being raped easier than watching a female comrade being raped (the point Jordan made)?

Yeah, I think that male/female makes no difference- or shouldn't. And the further we go with the integration, the easier it will be to deal with it- just like gays in the military...or anywhere else for that matter.




MERRY CHRISTMAS!!

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Are you presently ready to sacrifice your daughter or neice for such a position in SF? I'm not, I don't think you or anyone else is either.

Do you know what a Navy Corpsman or Army Medic have to go through in combat?

Watch Saving Private Ryan or Flags of Our Fathers...

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I am. I think it would be an honor to have a female family member serve. If she got captured and tortured she'd have some cool stories to bring back home. No different from the men.

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"Well this dinner is great. Say, did Jane ever tell you the time she was over in Jihadistan, got captured, tortured and repeatedly raped? Gosh, she tells the best stories! Pass the peas would ya?"

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I'll ask you kindly just once, stop spying on my family dinners.

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I was thinking that exact thing after reading his post. Gross!

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Are you presently ready to sacrifice your daughter or neice for such a position in SF? I'm not, I don't think you or anyone else is either.


It is not up to you, once a person is of legal age then it is THEIR decision and not yours or anyone else's .. this is the point of the movie, everyone should be able to make their own choices.c

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Sorry but women have long been raped in front of soldiers and men during war and times of violence. Women have been killed and tortured and killed destroyed as simple bystanders or "collateral damage." There is no difference in the situation except that a female soldier knows exactly what she is getting into and fully accepts the dangers of her job rather than being a helpless statistic of war time gendered violence.

There’s no one on IMDB I care enough for to use spell check- suck it grammar Nazis

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It's BS. They conveniently didn't show any male soldier being tortured in front of his buddies. I doubt they would find that any more palatable. And men can be raped too. They are.

For every lie I unlearn I learn something new - Ani Difranco

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You arbitrarily decided you knew what the movie wanted to portray, then criticized it for portraying something different. You are quite wrong.

The movie didn't make any final conclusion one way or the other. It allowed the characters to make their arguments. It portrayed a scenario where a woman, not every woman, but A woman was capable of doing the job, and it presented the positive and negative components of this event.

The main antagonist in the film doesn't finish by saying "Oh you were right, I was wrong, women can do anything." However he does grow great respect for her as an individual, but says that it is everyone else who has the problem. This is profound, because it's simultaneously acknowledging this might work, but that there are still standing social-psychological barriers. So at least to him, he sees it will cause trouble, but it might be worth it, and people have to change. The supposed supporter turned out to merely be playing politics, and the protagonist, "GI Jane" herself simply wanted the challenge. So ultimately the film doesn't give a definitive answer, it astutely notes the controversy, it counters the claims of absolute inability, but concedes there are weaknesses in men and women that may be a problem, but also may be solved.

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Well said!

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The film is about choice and every individual's right to choose for themselves.

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