MovieChat Forums > Face/Off (1997) Discussion > The thing(s) that bothered me most...

The thing(s) that bothered me most...

posted 13 years ago by IamBustakap
25 replies | jump to latest

While far from being the only thing flawed in the movie, the very first scene had a succession of two minor errors that I couldn't shake the first time I saw the movie, and made me judge it in a far more negative light than I would upon further viewings. Now, I kinda like the movie; it's fun, but back then I was in high school and much less forgiving.

When Travolta's character gets shot while on the carousel with his son, they fall off, and firstly there is no discernable bullet hole or damage on the blood-spattered carousel horse. Ok, stupid, but whatever, right?
Secondly, and most agregiously, we clearly see the characters fall directly backward, stomach to stomach, Travolta onto his back with the son on top, hugging him. In the very next scene, Travolta is about a dozen feet away from his son, craling on his stomach towards him...!?

Que...?

I've long since forgiven the error, but I mean, what kind of line producer did they have on set?
"Misdirected 'woo', which is pretty much any John Woo film..."

[–] LeeSir 13 years ago

That's called editing.

[–] IamBustakap 13 years ago

You mean 'poor editing'. You forgot to qualify that.

[–] IamBustakap 13 years ago

Aside from the fact that it would be an odd cut-job in the editing room, why in the blue blazes of existence would Travolta want to crawl several yards from his dying son in the first place?
They -clear as day- fell down on top of each other, yet in the VERY NEXT SCENE, only seconds later in movie time, they are dozens of feet apart. Dozens.
Even if they cut a scene in which Travolta somehow magically flew several feet, in an instant, after being horribly wounded and falling backwards, it still wouldn't make any sense for his character to do so, and would still be physically impossible.

Also, slipshod editing doesn't explain the lack of a bullet hole in the carousel horse.

[–] PromoteViolence 13 years ago

"They -clear as day- fell down on top of each other, yet in the VERY NEXT SCENE, only seconds later in movie time, they are dozens of feet apart. Dozens."

Ummmmm, try maybe 4-5 feet way. Also, they fell off a moving carousel; when Archer hit the ground it's highly possible that the impact caused them to separate a few feet.

"Also, slipshod editing doesn't explain the lack of a bullet hole in the carousel horse."

The bullet could have easily missed the horse all together. I like when people point out mistakes in continuity, or editing, but reading this was a waste of time and needed to be addressed.

Am I a butterfly dreaming I'm a man? Or a bowling ball dreaming I'm a plate of sashimi?

[–] IamBustakap 13 years ago

And your replying to it was an even further waste of time.

"Ummmmm, try maybe 4-5 feet way. Also, they fell off a moving carousel; when Archer hit the ground it's highly possible that the impact caused them to separate a few feet.":
Ah, no it isn't. Ever been shot? You fall down. You don't move, you don't go travelling several feet, and you don't reverse the trajectory of your fall, even on a carousel, which wouldn't be moving fast enough to send two people who just fell backwards into two separate, opposite directions, nor would the impact be strong enough to cause him to flip over onto his stomach when he had clearly fallen backwards.

"The bullet could have easily missed the horse all together. I like when people point out mistakes in continuity, or editing, but reading this was a waste of time and needed to be addressed.":
Easily missed the horse? The horse was directly behind them, in the line of fire. You would have done better to say that the bullet fragmented significantly after it hit his kids skull, at least that's plausible.

[–] PromoteViolence 13 years ago

That much thinking from someone who said the 2 bodies were "dozens" of feet apart? I'm watching this again now and they are maybe 4 feet away. Have you ever been shot? You're telling me that every time someone gets shot they fall the same way? Archer fell off the horse with his son in his arms and the boy fell and rolled out; that's all there is to it. Are you a physics major to argue with that logic? Also, from Castor's scope, you can't even see the horse at all. I don't think the head of the horse is even near where the bullet passed, and even if it was, the bullet could still have missed.

Am I a butterfly dreaming I'm a man? Or a bowling ball dreaming I'm a plate of sashimi?

[–] nyparalegal1 13 years ago

I have been shot (not a pleasant experience). I did get pushed up a few feet. The force pushed me forward and i stumbled about 6-10 feet before i hit the ground. You do move. You almost never fall straight down so off a carousel i could see someone being thrown at least 10 feet, no problem.

[–] Ironically_anonymous 13 years ago

that should shut him up

[–] TheaterGeek26 13 years ago

I'm sorry, I have to interject here... When you say that someone could be thrown at least 10 feet, no problem from a gunshot, do you mean with a bazooka (though technically not a gun), or in movie physics? Because the last time I checked with the real world...that doesn't happen.

[–] IamBustakap 10 years ago

Exactly.

[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] AndromedaRoach 10 years ago

After all these years, you're still pretending that a moving carousel can't separate two limp bodies four feet apart? This conversation died before it was born. Innocence is lost and so am I. But still I pretend to be strong. Still I wonder where I belong.

The Cockroach Honor Award
2008: WALL-E
2009: G-Force
The cockroach is a noble beast

[–] IamBustakap 10 years ago

"Pretending" nothing.
Let's see it put to the task, maybe I'll ease up, then.
I want a practical recreation of the situation which subsequently proves they'd play out in any manner similar to the results depicted in the film before I will ever concede these points.
Your draconian arguments are lost on me.

[–] Rhi_Bran_Y_Hud 12 years ago

In the scene where they capture Nicholas Cage - in the airport, Cage shoots an FBI agent, and you can see the wire that yanks the guy backward quite clearly. That was the biggest error, I thought.

[–] roohi20 12 years ago

ur comment is so refreshing and welcomed. by the way yes i agree with you.

[–] Herreken 12 years ago

This is the kind of movie that one must put their brain in Low Power mode to enjoy. As soon as I noticed silly things (which was probably in the first 10 minutes) I just said to myself, "It's an action movie. Just try to enjoy it."

My biggest problem was they kept showing the faces of the stuntmen. Horrible, horrible job that was. And couldn't they at least given Cage's stuntman a haircut?

DISPLAY thy breasts, my Julia!

[–] kevin_922 11 years ago

It must have been so hard for you intellectuals to enjoy a silly action movie.

[–] lucy_122 12 years ago

well the first thing is the bullet went through archer into his son, therefore it wouldn't of kept traveling through the son into the horse, the momentum of it would of meant it would of stayed inside the boy, so there wouldn't of been any blood splatter to go onto the horse.
the second bit is, they had both been shot, they fell off a moving horse onto the floor, im sure in that action and both being injured, as they fell, they let go of each other, and fell in different places, the boy being so young couldn't of survived the attack, and even archer looked pretty hurt as he had to use all of his strength to crawl over to his son.
wot i dont get is how archer knew that troy was behind it, archer didn't see the gun man and there was no mention that troy contacted him and told him, so how did he know.

I can handle dead people, u kill a dog, i go crazy

[–] desotowright 11 years ago

My biggest question is was I the only one squicked out when you see the reflection of faceless Cage in the doctor's glasses? Ugh! And he's smoking, which surely can't be good for, ya know, your exposed muscle tissue. That part always bothers me.

[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] fallingdownhard 9 years ago

I love how the physics of this scene is questioned and not the one where these two guys are beating the *beep* out of each other on a high speed boat that crashes and they both go flying off landing on the beach and just get up and start beating the *beep* out of each other again like nothing happened. Definitely a film that was a major influence on the Peter/Chicken fights on Family Guy.

[–] IamBustakap 9 years ago

Well, the movie'd already lost me by that point.

[–] skane110-1 9 years ago

I think that continuity problems like those are extremely common in movies and with "Face/Off", there are way bigger issues to deal with. I think that the worst kind of flaw that a movie can have is plot-holes that make the movie impossible to make sense. I totally get it that the movie is inherently ridiculous, implausible, and has the most over-the-top acting that Nicolas Cage has ever done but, the biggest thing that has always bothered me is with the idea of Castor Troy waking up from his coma with no one around apparently, no nurses, or doctors, or security guards of any kind. Then having Castor find a phone to call his cronies, having them get to the hospital (how could he possibly know where he was?), and then to top it all off, they somehow force the doctor to put Archer's face onto troy, and then they kill everyone who knew about the face-switch even though it would be completely impossible for Castor to know who those people were and then to bring them to the very room where the surgeries took place to murder them all. It's not just entirely insane but, the fact that Castor ends up with Archer's face is the foundation of the entire film. Having the overall plot of a movie get demolished like that is insane, and there had to have been better ways to go about the face-swap more successfully.

Also, the idea that Archer would even be assigned to work on a case involving Castor Troy is ludricous. He murdered his freaking son for crying out loud. There's a reason why that's not allowed in real-life. Law enforcement officials can not be personally tied to any cases they're working on since it will obviously get in the way of the investigation and cause all kinds of drama to unfold.