IF she would been "HONEST" from DAY 1 none of this would happened or mattered. Was she a whore? Yes, and No for the most part, but that's for each to decide.
They are two separate issues.
A whore by definition is someone who gets paid to have sex, so no, Alyssa wasn't a whore. I do agree though, withholding her past was her downfall with Holden.
Kojak, bang bang!
IF she would been "HONEST" from DAY 1 none of this would happened or mattered. Was she a whore? Yes, and No for the most part, but that's for each to decide.
It's not just about honesty. If Alyssa had been honest, Holden probably wouldn't have dated her in the first place. Almost no one wants to know the details of their partner's previous sex life, even if they think they do.
Alyssa shouldn't have told Holden that he was the first man she'd ever been with (especially given what was public knowledge in her and Holden's shared hometown), but as she pointed out, she did it because she knew that it would make Holden feel special (which is not a healthy quality on his part).
Technically, she never told him that. She just let him believe it.
Can't stop the signal.
It's not about honesty at all. Just because she shifted the honesty to the back of the queue, and that would piss you and me off in general- the fact remains, if she told him the truth to begin with, he wouldn't have even given her a second look, he's too immature. It's a story about a girl who kind of has a socio-schizophrenic condition, where she fully knows what guys think when she tells them she's lived life a bit and shagged around, and because of their conservatism, they feel jealous, trapped by her "successes" (as they believe them to be), and small in comparison, so she feels forced to come up with these stories of a different life so she wont have to put up with those bad feelings from guys she liked, because she's not a selfish person... she hasn't learned to love herself yet, or learned the harm that comes to one's own self wen you hide the truth from the ones you love, but that's not the issue. Maybe that's why she became a lezza, who knows. With Ben Affleck's character, it's all about why guys feel this way, this uncertainty of ourselves at a certain age, and regardless of how that makes us feel, we have no right to make the girl suffer because of it, but still, so many do, and so many feel it is the most important thing, above happiness. Jealousy is the poison we eat then hope they feel it, but it just kills us inside and drives them away until we finally condition ourselves, out of survival instinct or something, to never let a good thing go, and stop taking the poison. Accepting someone's past, to me, is all about growing up, it's one of the many important things you do to become a man. Hell, I wouldn't want to be held accountable for some of the things I've done in my past- no event defines a person unless they choose it to, and most of the time, while it was fun a nd all, they don't let it define them, it's what they do next that defines them, and if they want to carry on with that lifestyle, so be it, but if they want to be happy with something else, and you love them, and that "something" else is you... who are you to say no? Only a dman fool would, and THAT's that this movie's really about. Don't be a fool, don't be an idiot, and don't be stupid. An idiot is only an idiot if he makes the same mistake twice, I can't make it any clearer than that.
shareI think this viewpoint has a lot to do with maturity. Personally, I don't think people are entitled to know whether or not someone's been promiscuous in the past. If someone has a disease, that's a different story.
I'm a guy who's been with somewhere around 100 women; is that something I feel like I need to "divulge" before I get in a relationship with someone? As long as I'm clean, then hell no. And it's the same with women.
I was like 18 when I first watched this movie, and even back then I thought the whole plot device of Holden's jealousy was a little unrealistic, or kinda contrived for the sake of the plot. I'm 37 now and just watched the movie again, and this time I KNOW that's the case... You can either look at it from one of two angles; it was contrived for the plot, or Holden is just really, REALLY immature when it comes to sex and jealousy.
I couldn't imagine someone getting pissed off about that kind of thing in real life, let alone feeling like they're entitled to know *beep* like that before they start dating someone. But then again, the world is a different place when you're under 30. It's an alien world when you're 16 to 22.
The plot device isn't unrealistic it is just that you are assuming everybody feels the same way you do. There are plenty of people that get jealous of their spouse/girlfiriend/boyfriend past. I have been on both ends of the spectrum dating an older women when I was younger and now dating a younger women with myself in my mid 30's. That speech really hit home with me and I do agree with you that with maturity Holden's reaction would have been different. I think we even saw a year later his reaction would have been much different.
shareI suppose it does vary based on personality, but even then, I'd be inclined to think that people who feel like that are the minority (no offense -- it's not a "good thing" or a "bad thing" either way).
Maybe you're right, and I just couldn't relate to it because I don't feel like past sex lives are relevant (unless someone currently has an STD, or maybe even a history of risky behavior, like providing sex for drugs). And I can see how someone might be intimidated by a partner with more experience; I just don't understand how someone could judge them for it, or feel a degree of jealousy that usually comes from cheating.
Because at the end of the day, that's the key difference, I think; it's not cheating, but the Holden character reacted so extreme that it was like she slept with someone else while they were dating.
I just couldn't relate to it because I don't feel like past sex lives are relevant (
They were doomed no matter what. The first sign for Holden should have been that she identified as Lesbian when they met. I don't think he would have been any cooler about it if she was upfront from the start about having a threesome with 2 men. She shouldn't have let him believe that he was the only guy she had ever been with though.
Sometimes a movie or tv show plot is so stupid that only the stupid can understand it.
She was dishonest and childish in my opinion. Plus she was a huge attention whore. Everything was about getting attention. Even from the beginning of the film. She's all over the other girl fondling and kissing her and flaunting it right in front of his face, and then when he gets uncomfortable about and leaves she makes him out to be the bad guy like he's some kind of homophobe for leaving. Then she cheers for the visiting team at the hockey game just to make a public spectical out of herself to get attention once again.
shareThen she cheers for the visiting team at the hockey game just to make a public spectical out of herself to get attention once again.
I believe she may have very well had a problem with that. Also If I"m not mistaken, didn't she at that point run away like a child and then when he caught up to her she started screaming? Seems like that's all she did was run away and then scream. She freaks out and runs away and screams when he tells her he loves her too I believe. Unless I"m getting my scenes mixed up. It's been awhile since I watched the movie. She's plays it off like she's this oh so mature and open minded adult.
shareBeen a while for me too but from memory she runs away and screams in a couple of scenes of which this is one. I agree, despite her best efforts to be oh so mature about sex she isn't comfortable with her choices and isn't mature at all. Typically the onus is put on the man to forgive and forget, put aside his own morality and comfort zone and just deal with it.
The way Holden found out as well was really bad and quite cruel for him too. At one point I sort of backed Alyssa more than Holden but nowdays I find myself 100% in Holden's corner.
Sometimes a movie or tv show plot is so stupid that only the stupid can understand it.