MovieChat Forums > A Time to Kill (1996) Discussion > Do you think they deserved to die?!

Do you think they deserved to die?!

posted 16 years ago by stenlis
132 replies | jump to latest

There was a moment in the trial that didn't make any sense to me. It's when the prosecutor asks Carl 'Do you think they deserved to die?' and Carl admits he does. The film portrays this as a big victory for the prosecution - the music, the victorious grin on prosecutors face, Carls lawyer looks devastated...

But from judicial point of view it doesn't make any sense. Sure, usually it's a strong point to have the defendant admit he thought the victim deserved to die. But that's only when he denies killing him/her. This question (or the answer to be precise) establishes a motive. In Carl's case, nobody in the world would doubt his motive and nobody could have expected a different answer to that question from him.

So - the prosecutor achieved only one thing with this question - he showed us that the writers of this movie know nothing about murder trials.

[–] Oulala87 16 years ago

Well, Im assuming if he was suffering from TEMPORARY insanity that admitting that he thinks they deserved to die kind of hints towards the fact that it was indeed premeditated murder. He denies intending to kill them if I remember correctly. The plea was temporary insanity right?

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[–] Leiarie 11 years ago

No, he refused to plead insanity.

[–] Bueller_007 10 years ago

No, "Insanity" was the entirety of the defence... The movie makes this very clear. Did you even watch it?

[–] sobank 11 years ago

insane think what they think is right. your point proves that he is permanently insane............not temporarily.

[–] spencer-hathaway 16 years ago

Yes they deserved to die, and I hope they burn in hell.

[–] AZDane 16 years ago

You ARE aware these are not actual people, right?

They're fictional characters portrayed by actors.

[–] baba_blue_sky 16 years ago

That's the actual line spoken by Samuel L. Jackson's character in the movie, AZDane. I think the poster was just quoting it.

Summary of LOST's Finale: Locke marries the Island and makes sweet love to it forever. The End.

[–] tlmkr38 15 years ago

OK lets get technical here... the question was asked did they deserve to die. didn't say did the characters deserve to die.. However.... yes the characters in the movie deserved to die.

[–] 15 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Isaac5855 15 years ago

Excuse me?

[–] citizenofdis 16 years ago

Actually SLJ's character deserves to die a horrible death. Murder is never justified and he should have paid for the consequences.

It is ridiculous how he complains that two white guys might get away with rape when he is trying to get away with double murder!

Shame on John Grisham for glorifying and justifying murder!

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Isaac5855 15 years ago

I think Carl Lee deserved to go to jail if indeed his defense was temporary insanity because that defense implies lack of intent and I think Carl Lee intended what he did.

[–] mradam-3 14 years ago

"What he did was just as bad if not worse than what the men did to his daughter."

That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever read.

[–] pram_d 14 years ago

totally agree with mradam-3

[–] washtimes87 12 years ago

hah no...anyone who likes to rape young kids deserves to die. If I could take the law into my hand...I would ---- them all up for good.

[–] venturaa 11 years ago

This!

Snakes. Why'd it have to be snakes?

[–] everydayboredom1980 10 years ago

For real, WTF?

Two guys raped a 10 year old girl and left her for dead.

Samuel L. Jackson killing those 2 rapists, the rapists of his daughters, is somehow WORSE, because murder is a bigger crime in itself than rape (dead vs. not always dead)??

*beep* that, those 2 guys deserved it.

[–] Minorda920 14 years ago

Nothing could be worse than raping a child. If it were my child, I'd have shot those sacks of crap in the knees, and taken out a samurai sword, and cut their heads clean off.

[–] metroid202 12 years ago

"Nothing could be worse than raping a child." I think murdering a child is far worse...

[–] domincanredangel 11 years ago

i so disagree sorry.
Murdering a child/adult
is equating to imo raping brutally as the two gringo's in the movie did.way worse
and or equal.many has agreed worldwide on this topic premise on the MENTAL part of the "living with what happened"after being raped?Your really not "living"at all if it is "too hard to deal with.adios.

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[–] sudip-28-697695 8 years ago

Really?

"Nothing could be worse than raping a child." I think murdering a child is far worse...

I am father of two daughters and I can say any sane and loving father would rather want their daughter to get a quick death than be raped in the way that is depicted in this movie. By quick death I mean the way those two rapists got. And in my view every murders are not equal. Even 100 murders (quick deaths) is lot less worse than 10 years old getting raped and treated in that way.

[–] sunshinesuperman9-280-436880 12 years ago

Deputy Dwayne Powell Looney: I got a little girl. Somebody rapes her, he's a dead dog. I'll blow him away just like Carl Lee did.

[–] venturaa 11 years ago

What he did was just as bad if not worse than what the men did to his daughter.

Are you serious? They raped a 10 year old.

Snakes. Why'd it have to be snakes?

[–] TheAstor 10 years ago

No way! Two grown adults decided to rape a little defenseless innocent girl, partly racially motivated as well making it even worse. In rage and revenge, the father kills the two guilty grown adults. They are in no way the same whatsoever.

The first victim is an underage girl being assaulted by two grown male adults. The two victims are grown adults who raped a little girl.

The little girl deserved no punishment, she was innocent. The two men deserved punishment (of some kind) as they were guilty.

The victims of the crimes are not the same, therefore the crimes and reasons for commited against them cannot be considered the same.

If a man punches a woman, and I then punch that man because he punched a woman, is what I've done as bad as what that man did? Of course not.

The only debate here is what level of punishiment are we comofortable with those two rapists getting. I'm personally fine with a father of a rape victim murdering them, but I understand people who think a person shouldn't take the law into their own hands, or who might be against the death penatly.

But to say the crimes are equal? I'd like to actually hear some justification for that.

[–] pingidjit 10 years ago

A quick death is not at all comparable to the torture they put that girl through. Those men indeed deserved to die. Tax payers should not have to finance their lives in a cozy jail cell getting 3 meals a day. Nope.

For Carl Lee himself things get a little greyer. Is murder okay? No. But can we understand why he did it? Yes. Is he going to do it again? Not likely unless someone else tries to screw with his family.

I believe that jail is for repeat offenders of small crimes. Rapists, pedofiles and killers should be carted off to an island and set free to fend for themselves. But one time crime committers (including murder) is not something I think should be punished in the same way. No jail, no death, no island. But therapy for sure. One time criminals such as Carl Lee are indeed some form of insane because of the trauma that occurred to put them in the head space of even thinking about killing someone. Carl Lee would never have murdered anyone if his daughter hadn't been brutalized. A parents protection of their child is a wild instinct that human evolution has not bred out. To punish that, is ridiculous. Instead therapy for the whole family to help deal with all that has happened. Jail is meant to keep the public protected from criminals. Since one timers aren't a danger to the general public, jail is not an appropriate place for them.

[–] Noone222 10 years ago

What he did wasn't even close to what those men did to his daughter. As a woman you should know better.

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[–] XBlackOrchidX 16 years ago

It is ridiculous how he complains that two white guys might get away with rape when he is trying to get away with double murder!
First of all its a movie and anyways 2 white men raped a 10 year old little girl they should have been put to death.Yeah he tried getting away with double murder and yes he should have paid.Then again 2 white men raped a 10 year old little girl and that was his way of giving them what they deserved and under any circumstance if it was you in his position you would have tried to kill or have killed a black man if he raped your mom,sister,ETC I know i would have if nothing was being done about it and around that time nothing was being done about it.

[–] arthur-62 15 years ago

what if they raped a dog,... would you kill he dog?

[–] arthur-62 15 years ago

what if they raped a dog,... would you kill the dog?

[–] Isaac5855 15 years ago

Then again 2 white men raped a 10 year old little girl and that was his way of giving them what they deserved and under any circumstance if it was you in his position you would have tried to kill or have killed a black man if he raped your mom,sister,

I think deep down Carl Lee knew that those two men were not going to get the punishment they deserved, but it doesn't justify what he did and using temporary insanity as a plea was wrong. Of course, he can get up on the stand after the fact and say he was having an out of body experience and that he was watching himself do it, but that's what he's expected to say to legitimize his defense...in reality, Carl Lee should have gone to jail.

[–] sunshinesuperman9-280-436880 12 years ago

Deputy Dwayne Powell Looney: I got a little girl. Somebody rapes her, he's a dead dog. I'll blow him away just like Carl Lee did.

[–] slip_fuhrer 16 years ago

you dirty racist. you just hate black people.

[–] Isaac5855 15 years ago

Who are you talking to? If it'sme, you should know that I am black.

[–] danimal97520 16 years ago

citizenofdis.....So death is ok for one and not the other? Gee thats odd. Personally as a white man, if 2 men raped my 10 year old daughter (regardless of race) Id do the same thing SLJ's character did. And if you dont feel the same, I say get off your racial high horse, have some kids then come back and tell us how wrong it is. The 2 that raped his daughter WOULD do it again. He WOULD NOT. No reason to. He is not a danger to society (thus going home to his family). The 2 bigots would rape again. Gee what a lose they got killed. But Im sure you feel they shouldnt have been punished at all. Your post is flat out offensive.

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] spittle8 16 years ago

You're *beep* crazy. Those two guys he murdered were garbage and deserved to die a slow and torturous death. Samuel L. Jackson's character should have been lauded for his public service.

"The spirit is willing, but the flesh is spongy and bruised."

[–] snowfairy123183-1 16 years ago

The prosecutor (Spacey) was asking him that, "Did they deserve to die" because he was attempting to get Jackson to prove that he was not insane at the time, and wasn't now, by his answer, to strengthen the possibility of a conviction.

[–] mmmPeachy 16 years ago

Those two "White Guys" (who shouldn't even be considered human, well maybe Willard, cause he felt some kind of remorse, but the other guy didn't) deserved what they got. If anything, Sam L Jackson's character was doing society a favor. He was getting rid of two rapists who would probably do it again.

Those two "men" brutally raped his 10-year-old daughter, then they urinated on her, beat her, and chucked her almost lifeless body into a gorge... And as a result of them tearing her insides up so bad, she would never be able to carry children because they destroyed her womb.

How can you say that's not justifiable homicide?

And if murder, in your opinion is never justifiable, does that mean if someone is trying to kill or rape your brother, sister, mother, or father, and your family member ends up killing them first, does that mean they deserve to die a horrible death too? I doubt it.

[–] JuanMacready 16 years ago

The murderer Carl should have been jailed for life.

[–] matt_garth 16 years ago

Wait a second there, juany. If that had happened, then you would have characterized this movie as being racist!

"Take 'em to Missouri"

[–] sunshinesuperman9-280-436880 12 years ago

Deputy Dwayne Powell Looney: I got a little girl. Somebody rapes her, he's a dead dog. I'll blow him away just like Carl Lee did.

[–] TomWilhelm 13 years ago

We all should glorify the killing of child rapists you douche! Says more about you when you side with redneck molesters than a father revenging his 10 year old daughter!

[–] clfbq 13 years ago

So murder is only justified if they State is doing the killing??

What everyone is not saying here is that these men SHOULD have been tried for attempted murder...not just rape. They left her to DIE and only by the grace of God did she live. So if she had died, would that have made it any better what Carl Lee did? I think not. They deserved the same fate. Their intent was to kill her. Was he wrong for taking the law into his own hands? Probably. But one has to wonder, if the law wasn't going to be just and fair are you supposed to sit back and take it and wait for it to happen again?

Any normal father would have done the same thing if given the opportunity. I am female and I would have done so too...and I'm not even a mother. And I could see where someone would be in a state of insanity while committing the murders. I think even sane, rational people would have lost all sound judgment and reason in this circumstance.

[–] Leiarie 11 years ago

After I was raped, my father told me it did not matter.

When I was having an asthma attack once, my father would not let me have my inhaler. He told me life was hard and to suck it up and if I did not like it to put a gun in my mouth and pull the trigger.

That's the way my father has always treated me. He did my daughter the same way before I lost her.

Then he wonders why I don't want anything to do with him.

[–] adiunderground 12 years ago

eh...rape is worse than murder.
and yes they should have died and desrved worst.
just because men can't see it and so does the law, is because men usually aren't the victims (ofcourse, some men do get raped but as a world phenomena, women usualy are the victims).
so ask that little girl if she thinks they didn't deserve to die (her character ofcourse and not the real actress, as previous posts mentioned).

[–] barrin21 11 years ago

Really depends on the nature of the rape or murder to state which one is "worse".

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[–] Leiarie 11 years ago

Child sex predators never change. They would have reoffended and ruined yet another child's life. Murder is justified in such cases.

[–] barrin21 11 years ago

Lol get *beep* bent.

If I can't smoke and swear I'm *beep*

[–] czarinaanya 16 years ago

Yes, the fact that the DA got him to admit it potentially put SEVERE holes in his "temporary insanty" plea.. See.. if he was temporarily insane when he did it, his mind would be clearer now.. But showing that he feels the same way about what the two rapists deserved can cast serious doubts on the "temporary insanity" plea..

[–] breakaway23 16 years ago

It did not put SEVERE holes in his temporary insanity plea. He was insane for killing them NOT for thinking that they deserved to die.

[–] ascferme 16 years ago

Yes and no. From a legal and just point of view...definitely not. From an emotional point of view without any thought...yes.

[–] taijiquan12 16 years ago

Well I just drank a Samuel L. Jackson, and I have to say....

YES THEY DESERVED TO DIE, AND I HOPE THEY BURN IN HELL!

"Bulls**t MR.Han Man!!"--Jim Kelly in Enter the Dragon

[–] Stannis-The-Mannis 16 years ago

if it was my daughter, i would have waited till they got off, then slowly torture and kill them.

A CORNERED FOX IS MORE DANGEROUS THAN A JACKAL!

[–] Bete_Noire35 10 years ago

So basically, you would have pulled a Law Abiding Citizen?

Didn't Gerald Butler's character slowly torture and murder the man who raped and murdered his wife and daughter because the DA arranged a plea bargain?

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[–] vanessa-b-thompson 16 years ago

he plead not guilty by reason of insanity. The prosecution was showing that he is well aware of what he was doing and thus was not insane.

[–] maskandmore 16 years ago

I think most people get caught up in the details and specifics of what makes a man guilty or innocent. I feel like the whole reason we have a jury, is to give others the opportunity to put themselves in another persons shoes, and ask themselves, "what would I have done?" I don't personally have children, but while watching the movie I thought about what I would have done if I were Carl Lee. Without question, I would have murdered those two men, therefore, I could not convict a man of doing the same. Simple as that. The system will never be perfect, it's up to good people to make it as fair as possible.

[–] hitman_0303 16 years ago

Yes, they deserved to die. Such savage beasts should be eradicated immediately.
They acted inhuman and got what they deseved.
Rapers and pedophiles deserve death penalty, whatever that means.

[–] taijiquan12 16 years ago

Spot on hitman. There is no forgiveness for ignoring one's humanity.

"Bulls**t MR.Han Man!!"--Jim Kelly in Enter the Dragon

[–] Waterfairy 16 years ago

As a white woman raised in the South, I can say with no reservations, if I had been on Billy Ray and Willard's jury----I would have voted to FRY them, and if I had been on Carl Lee's jury---- he would have NEVER been in danger of being found guilty.

I read in the thread that they "are only characters in a book" but the truth is they're based on real people, maybe not specific people, but real people. I am embarrassed to say their attitude was not uncommon, and to a degree is still isn't. The chances of them going to prison for what they did would have been slim to none.

I will say things are improving. Black and white kids can be friends and even date now without worrying about jumped or even killed. It wasn't that way when I was growing up.

It's called a llaaaannce--Hellooooo

[–] unknown_soul278 15 years ago

Waterfairy I completely agree (white woman raised in Mississippi and Louisiana here). I hate to say it but they probably would have gotten of easily; probably the worst they would get is a short time in jail then right back home to do it again. And they would do it again, animals like that always do. The only problem I had with Carl Lee shooting those two monsters is that they got off too easy... they deserved much worse for what they did to that little girl.

Honesty is the best policy, but insanity is a better defense.

[–] juli18807 (71) 4 years ago

Thank you!! It’s comments like yours that restore my faith in humanity.