Been a while since I’ve seen this but isn’t Soze supposed to be Turkish? If so, how come he looks and sounds like some American dude?
Also, Soze is supposed to be a ‘legend’ known to the whole criminal underworld, but the guy’s, like, 35? It takes time to become a legend, couple of decades maybe, you’d expect him to be in his 60’s but he’s pretty young. How old was he when he shot his family and became a crime lord, 15?
You realize that the plot twist is that Verbal Kent was lying and was Keyser Soze all along.
shareYes, and Verbal Kint is American and 35ish, hence my post.
shareEverything he said about Keyser Soze was a lie. He's not a legendary story that criminals believe in. He's just a made up story conjured up by a smart criminal.
shareIf that’s true then why was the burn victim petrified to death of ‘Keyser Soze!’ Even the Fed is startled to hear that this man claims to have seen Keyser Soze in the flesh and immediately goes about trying to identify him, so clearly he is some kind of legendary criminal boogie-man outside of Verbal’s story.
shareSoze is supposedly Turkish, but it's made pretty clear that he's mostly a myth and nobody knows who or what he really is.
shareWell the burn victim describes ‘Keyser Soze’ to the artist who draws Verbal, and then we see that Verbal transforms into the limp-less, gold cigarette-lighter using smoothie (who holds his cigarette in the Hungarian style with his thumb and forefinger) that the movie is telling us is Keyser Soze.
Yes, "Verbal" is the man who shot everybody on the boat and the one who the rat Marquez identified as Soze. However, we know absolutely nothing about the real guy. Whether his name is really Keyser, whether he's actually Turkish or whether all other stories about him and his criminal empire are true.
sharebut as the OP pointed out above, the burn victim ID'd Verbal as Soze in the police sketch. So that pretty much confirms that Verbal is known in the crime community with the name of Soze, right?
shareActually no, Marquez was the only one who could ID Soze. The Hungarian had no clue who he was was, but reasonably assumed the gunman was Soze himself.
But funny how you and the OP have the same misunderstanding. I did not suggest that Verbal's not the real guy behind Soze. My point is that nobody knows what's true about the stories surrounding him. He most likely is not Turkish and did not shoot his family.
I am trying to remember marquez. the dead guy on the beach?
So the burn victim IDd verbal in the sketch. you are presnting here that even though that happened, it could be that the sketch was verbal but that didn't mean the sketch is soze. am i getting it?
i really dont know. it's so convoluted.
Yes, Marquez is the dead guy on the beach who the Argentinians were trying to sell to the Hungarians because he was one of the few who could ID Soze.
It could very well be that Verbal isn't really Soze. The movie allows for different interpretations, including one that suggests "Verbal" simply made use of a myth that already existed.
However, whether Verbal is really Soze wasn't exactly the topic of this thread. I'm simply pointing out that there's so much myth surrounding the figure of Soze, there's no reason to assume he's actually Turkish or killed his own family.
got it. yes the movie is a ball of yarn
Why have all these blatant clues pointing to an epic twist in which Verbal is Soze after all, even sealing it with the idea that ‘the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist’… only for that to be bullshit?
What’s the movie saying? ‘Ha-ha, made you suspend disbelief, dummy!’ Fiction is pointless bullshit. Made you waste two hours 🤣’?
Verbal is Soze unless I hear a very compelling reason otherwise.
No, the twist is actually that Verbal is the gunman on the boat. The other, main twist is that the movie you just saw was just a story made up by Verbal. The movie is saying that you can decide for yourself what the deal is.
Verbal is Soze unless I hear a very compelling reason otherwise.
No, the twist is actually that Verbal is the gunman on the boat.
I personally believe Verbal is the man behind the Soze myth, but the people who made the film have said different interpretations are possible and I saw many on the IMDb boards over the years. All of that is beside the point, though, because the question is not whether Verbal is Soze.
Soze’s origins also correspond to reality, outside of Verbal’s story characters speculate that he is Turkish or Hungarian and maybe has a German father, he’s clearly more feared in Europe but the FBI guy knows about him.
Granted that the other characters who mention Soze do not discuss his country of origin, only Verbal does, but Soze’s name is telling. From iMDB trivia:
Clues pointing to Keyser Söze's identity are given in the character's name. Söze resembles the Turkish word sözel, meaning "verbal". The name "Keyser" which resembles the pronunciation of the German word "Kaiser" meaning emperor or king.
Plus Soze holds his cigarette in the Hungarian style when nobody’s watching.
Verbal is Soze, and he has Turkish roots.
The fact that his name seems to have some kind of meaning is actually more of an indication that it's made up, just like the name Verbal.
I've been to Hungary, guys there smoke the same way as everybody else.
he has Turkish roots
The etymological links between ‘Verbal’ and ‘Soze’ are deliberate clues by the filmmakers to link the characters, a subtle hint as to the fact that they are the same person - which they clearly are because the film makes it clear.
Soze’s cigarette holding isn’t Hungarian, I got that wrong, it’s Turkish. From IMDB:
Verbal says "He's supposed to be Turkish" about Keyser Soze. In the final scene of the film, as he is picked up by Kobayashi, he doesn't hold his cigarette between his index finger and middle finger, like most smokers do. Instead, he holds it between his index finger and thumb. This is very common in the middle and eastern regions of Turkey.
"The etymological links between ‘Verbal’ and ‘Soze’ are deliberate clues by the filmmakers to link the characters,"
Well, duh. However, that does not in any way mean that either of those names is his real name. In fact, the literal meaning of those names suggests he purposely chose them because of his tendency to talk a lot.
You seem to pick and choose. His strong US accent does not mean he's American, but the the way he smokes does prove he's Turkish? But you do know anyone with an account can add to the IMDb trivia section, right? I live among Turks and they always have their cigarette between their index and their middle finger, almost like women. Also:
https://64.media.tumblr.com/ad0d1b1258f3a103a7a5d1fa820a7c96/tumblr_np5jfmuPI11uqfp9do1_400.gifv
Some details are absolutely facts, however most of the story can not be confirmed, like Soze being Turkish. The details that are facts also don't prove anything about Soze's background is true.
"Soze wouldn't strike terror into people like the burn victim"
Lol, the burn victim is terrified of the carnage the gunman on the boat created, but just like everybody else he doesn't know who Soze really is, that's why they were buying Marquez. He certainly never said he was Turkish and that Soze was his real name.
Only a freaking troll would keep insisting that I said Soze doesn't exist (within the universe of the movie, just to be clear).🙄
""Soze is supposed to be a ‘legend’ known to the whole criminal underworld, but the guy’s, like, 35? It takes time to become a legend, couple of decades maybe, you’d expect him to be in his 60’s but he’s pretty young. How old was he when he shot his family and became a crime lord, 15?""
good points!
Right? And not only that, Kobayashi tells Keaton he is being punished for unknowingly interfering with a Soze shipment in 1981.
If we assume Soze is 35, that means he was an established crime lord aged 20, which means he must have been about 12 when he shot his wife and kids, and went on his infamous murder rampage.
i think the only sensible view is to make a concession about spacey's appearance in the film:
A--coulda cast someone else, which woulda been fine with me but at this point spacey is locked in the role as canon with fans
B--or we could say maybe soze just looks young for his age, and he is acutally more like 45-47. this is quite possible. I have known people who were 45-50 and didn't look a day over 31. so eh, it's 'possible'. that would make the timeline more plausible. but as a side point i don't think singer or mcquarrie ut that much thought into their sophomore film project.
i still love this film very much. it's fun trying to break down these little nuances. i have seen the damn thing at least 30 tiimes and i swear each time i have to go back and rethink the whole plot just to wrap my mind around it. lol
and also, i think it's cool as hell how the detective Baer later became gus fring! haha
Totally agree. I love the film but these guys had a cool idea for their sophomore effort, as you say, and didn’t think every aspect of it through.
The problem is you get autists on here trying to square the circle caused by these filmmaking errors. Like the guy trying to tell me that Verbal confessing to shooting a man at point blank range in the head to a bunch of cops would have zero legal consequences.
Or those desperate to prove that Verbal isn’t Soze after all… despite the movie shoving countless indicators that he is, running just shy of giving him a fucking name tag.
well said lol
shareAl Capone was 33 when he went to jail.
Lucky Luciano was around 35 when he became boss of bosses.
Bugsy' Siegl was murdered when he was 36.
Mickey Cohen rans organized crime in LA in his 30's.
El Chapo started his cartel when he was 32.
Some of the later Dons took power from mid 30s to mid 40s.
So 35 isn't unreasonable. And it is a movie.
As for the accent, you can lose them or mimic others if you choose. Since Keyser was posing an American, it makes since he would adopt an American accent.
Those are semi-famous crime bosses, but are they ‘legends’? Seems like a stretch.
Also, a Hungarian dude attempting an American accent ain’t gonna sound like Kevin Spacey 🤣
Semi-famous? Those guys are real life legends.
Keyser Sozer is a character in a movie. Movies aren't reality.
I’m only aware of one of them, Al Capone, and he’s not exactly the Adolf Hitler of the organised crime world.
I don’t know why you’re talking about movies not being reality but in case my point about Soze’s accent escaped you it was that a Turkish person faking an American accent is not going to sound flawless. Hell, most professional actors for whom English is a second language find it impossible to credibly sound 100% American, no way is this thug going to have mastered it.
That fact that you are unaware means very little in this discussion.
So you're a dialog coach or a linguist?
Thanks for your input.
Try to stay on topic.
shareI did stay on topic.
Starting with the original post:
You speak with authority on accents. Asking for your credentials is not only on topic, but reasonable.
You wanted to discuss can one become a crime legends at mid-30's, but you know nothing about real-life crime legends and don't want to learn. One again your topic.